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IEMs - need to boost my bass

M

mortware

Guest
Jan 15, 2014
6
1
#1
As the title suggests, I'm not getting enough volume from my balanced output from the amp, into my IEM amplifier.

Im using Invalid Link Removed with a Invalid Link Removed. The idea being that one channel would come from the mixing desk (this works fine) and the other input from the balanced output of my amp. I've now discovered that this output is not enough to give me good volume to my ears (derp), so I probably need another piece of equipment.

Ideally I'd like something to go on my pedal board - any suggestions?
 
#2
mortware said:
Ideally I'd like something to go on my pedal board - any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Had that exact problem, and I had an ART tube mic preamp sitting on a shelf from another project.
Works great for me.
There are undoubtedly other mic preamps out there that can take an XLR input. ART even makes several flavors (with several prices) with more expansive feature sets. Something with a limiter (or at least compressor) is probably a good idea, unless your IEM amp has one built in (mine does...).
Since this is a 'monitoring' and not 'recording' application, it doesn't have to be a big-bucks mic pre (there is no upper bound on price in this category) so something inexpensive will probably do.
https://www.amazon.com/ART-TubeMP-T...ords=art+preamp+tube&psc=1&smid=AJFLJ7J2AIXGD
 
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#3
Thanks for your help - I have a followup question if I may...

I'm told that the balanced output of my amp, is not "line level" - which is why I'm getting this issue. Is this the case generally? What's the difference between balanced and line level?

If the above is true - then it seems I only need to boost the output from my amp balanced output to a decent level, and feed that into my P1 IEM amp/thing
 
#4
I should add that the simplest option would be to have a good mix (with my DI bass) from the desk to my ears - but I can only get the same mix as the singer or drummer - who don't want a lot of bass in their mix... Pfft.
 
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#5
mortware said:
I'm told that the balanced output of my amp, is not "line level" - which is why I'm getting this issue. Is this the case generally?
Click to expand...
Yes, but not exclusively... Often DI's are designed to feed mic-level preamps.
Some are designed with line-level outputs.
What's the difference between balanced and line level?
Click to expand...
They are completely different things.
'Balanced' is a transmission method - 'Differential.' One wire 'pushes' while the other 'pulls' and the actual signal is the difference of the two. (There are 3 wires because there is also a reference ground.) This makes the transmission relatively immune to 'common mode' (affects both signal wires) interference because adding a signal to both wires does not affect the difference of the two.

'Line level' is a measure of how strong the signal is. 'Pro' equipment usually places 'Line Level at +4dB, while a lot of amateur gear uses a much lower -10dB peak.

If the above is true - then it seems I only need to boost the output from my amp balanced output to a decent level, and feed that into my P1 IEM amp/thing
Click to expand...
That is correct - like a mic preamp.
 
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#6
mortware said:
I should add that the simplest option would be to have a good mix (with my DI bass) from the desk to my ears - but I can only get the same mix as the singer or drummer - who don't want a lot of bass in their mix... Pfft.
Click to expand...
That's usually a good solution especially when relying on a mono mix. I've done it. With a stereo IEM mix, good luck getting two monitor mixes from the sound guy (unless it's me - I can be pretty easy to work with...) especially if there's a snake involved and the venue is already pre-wired. My IEM (wireless) is stereo, and I usually like it wired like the OP is describing: "everybody else" to one channel, 'just me' to the other.
 
#7
If as you say in post #3, you're working with a mic-level signal from your amp*, then consider a Rolls PM55 (or similar) on your pedalboard. That'll let you blend a stereo or mono monitor feed from the mixer w/ a mic-level feed from your amp.

*Is the signal from your amp coming from a DI output or from a line out? If it's a DI out, then it's likely at mic level. But if it's a 1/4" out, it's probably not at mic level. The issue may be that you're losing half of the signal by running a balanced signal down a cable wired tip/sleeve.
 
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#8
EastCoastThump said:
*Is the signal from your amp coming from a DI output or from a line out? If it's a DI out, then it's likely at mic level. But if it's a 1/4" out, it's probably not at mic level. The issue may be that you're losing half of the signal by running a balanced signal down a cable wired tip/sleeve.
Click to expand...

It's coming from the "Balanced Out" (XLR) of my Aguilar ToneHammer 500 - so based on what has been said above - I'm guessing this is mic-level.
 
#9
IIRC, on that Aguilar head the XLR out is at a tweener level (something like -20 dB nominal), but closer to line level than to mic level.

Three things to check:
  • Disengage the Aggie's -10 dB pad. It acts on the DI output, so if that's engaged you'll lose even more signal from the balanced out.
  • Switch the Behringer P1 to mono
  • Check those MEE M6s. When I was testing them, I've found them a bit bass shy; so if the seal's not good, hearing your instrument can be a struggle. (If you're hearing enough low end from the kick-drum in your IEMs, though, you can rule this out as a contributing problem.)
 
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#14
mortware said:
Ideally I'd like something to go on my pedal board - any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I do this exact thing from my pedal board. The signal goes through all the various pedals I use, then to a splitter. One signal from the splitter goes to my amp or FOH (depends on the gig), the other signal to an Eden WTDI preamp (also on the board), then on to my IEM transmitter. One input on the IEM transmitter from the monitor board (for everything else in the band), the second input from my Eden pedal so I have total control over what bass I get to hear. Love the setup.
 
#15
When I read the OP, looking at the specs on the devices (especially the 16-ohm impedance on the M6) I'm going uh?
You should be able to blow your head off with the P1 volume controls.
If the M6 are light on bass (as has been suggested), there's nothing you can do other than put a [bass-boost] EQ between your bass feed and the P1.
Replacing the P1 with a Rolls PM unit is NOT going to fix anything if the M6's are light on bass.
 
#16
s0c9 said:
Replacing the P1 with a Rolls PM unit is NOT going to fix anything if the M6's are light on bass.
Click to expand...

Right. The Rolls suggestion was working on the OP's statement that his head was delivering a mic-level signal. It's not.

The right tips (better fit and seal) can *help* the M6's bass response, but only to the extent that the OP's fit now might be poor.
 
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#17
QweziRider said:
I do this exact thing from my pedal board. The signal goes through all the various pedals I use, then to a splitter. One signal from the splitter goes to my amp or FOH (depends on the gig), the other signal to an Eden WTDI preamp (also on the board), then on to my IEM transmitter. One input on the IEM transmitter from the monitor board (for everything else in the band), the second input from my Eden pedal so I have total control over what bass I get to hear. Love the setup.
Click to expand...


Not to steal the thread but I'm looking for a similar solution. I'm looking to take a stereo mix from Aviom and mix this with my Bass signal thus giving me control over what Bass signal I hear. Of course removing my bass signal from the Avionm mix as well. Sometimes depending on where the sound guy has my DB at a start overdrtiving the singla coming from the console. It would be nice to bew able to control the Bass signal I hear. I'm thinking a small mixer to blend the stereo Aviom and my Bass.

Is anyone aware of a small personal mixer that is compact that would take one either 1/4" (from pedal board) or XLR from Amp DI and also be able to mix a 1/4" stereo input (or two mono) then to a head phone out with volume control and most important a clean signal. ?????
 
#18
EastCoastThump said:
Right. The Rolls suggestion was working on the OP's statement that his head was delivering a mic-level signal. It's not.

The right tips (better fit and seal) can *help* the M6's bass response, but only to the extent that the OP's fit now might be poor.
Click to expand...
THAT is why I made the [expensive] move to customs about 6 yrs ago. I have never looked back.
 
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#19
Red Planet said:
Is anyone aware of a small personal mixer that is compact that would take one either 1/4" (from pedal board) or XLR from Amp DI and also be able to mix a 1/4" stereo input (or two mono) then to a head phone out with volume control and most important a clean signal. ?????
Click to expand...
Have a look at the Rolls PM351; it might do all you need.
If not, I just bought a Yamaha MG06 for under $100 and something like that should do the trick.
It's not as nice or quiet as my SoundCraft, but it's small, light, and inexpensive.
 
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#20
s0c9 said:
THAT is why I made the [expensive] move to customs about 6 yrs ago. I have never looked back.
Click to expand...

Yes, although I'd bet fat stacks that even if you were able to reshell the M6s for a custom fit, they'd still be lacking clear bass. It's why I've moved some spending-allergic bandmates from M6s to KZ ZS5s and 6s. If I could talk them into 64 audio's A3s or InEarz P450s I would.

The MEE M6s are workable for vocalists or guitarists who don't want to deal with monitors, who won't spend for customs, whose ears fit the M6s, who can get a decent seal with universal tips, and who don't want to hear lows in their IEM mix. I don't count them as workable for drummers or bassists; and in the basement-budget range, they're not at all in the same ballpark as the ZS5 and 6.
 
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