Double Bass IF I decide to file my bridge wing to accommodate a pickup ...

[Steve Freides]

If I decide to file my bridge wing to accommodate a K & K Bass Max, what's the right tool for the job, and where can I buy it, and why should I do this myself, and why should I not do this myself, and whatever else you'd like to tell me.

I have used a K & K Bass Max very happily on several basses over several years but to date have left the fitting to a luthier. I'm considering doing this myself.

Thanks in advance.

-S-

 

[misterbadger]

I was in my luthier's shop when he fitted my Revolution Solo. The tools of choice were a very sharp knife, file, and sandpaper on a stick. Not rocket science by any means, but took a fair bit of time - I'd do it myself next time. The trick seems to be in keeping the faces dead parallel where the pickup will make contact. good luck!

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I use an emery board.

 

[drurb]

Fitting a BassMax is much less of a chore than is fitting the Rev Solo. Badger is dead on that the surface of the latter has to remain absolutely flat. According to the video (see next post), the RS like there to be a "hot spot," or slightly raise area against which the RS sits. The BassMax has a springy cushion and that allows for a much greater tolerance for error. Alas, you don't get something for nothing. A properly fitted Rev Solo is in a different league than the BassMax. I never liked the sound of a BassMax. IMO, it's a crude device that makes a DB sound like a BG.

TEHO.

 

[MikeCanada]

That is a video of Gary installing an Upton Rev Solo. He's using a combination of a rasp, file, and sandpaper on a block. The file and sandpaper you should be able to find at just about any hardware store, the rasp you might have to go somewhere a little more woodworking orientated such as Woodcraft, Lee Valley, etc. You really don't need a rasp. It removes the material much more quickly, which could easily mean you go too far. Obviously the whole "measure twice, cut once" saying comes into play, or in this case something more like "take a bit at a time and check often" doesn't have the same ring to it, but you get the point. I do not know the Bass Max personally, so I could not suggest if it would benefit from the "hot spot" that Gary talks about, where the wing and leg of the bridge are slightly rounded so there is a smaller contact surface, or if you want to keep the surfaces as parallel as possible for a larger contact area.

If you are careful and slow about fitting it, make sure to check frequently that the gap you are creating is not too large but also you aren't creating any really weird angles, sharp edges, etc. then you can likely do it on your own fairly successfully. I would recommend putting a towel or something else around the bridge foot and over the bass so if you drop the file you don't leave a mark on the instrument or if you're using a small enough file you don't have to try to fish it out of the f hole. If you decide you really want to use a rasp, you will want to be careful about tear out depending on how aggressive it is, and you will want to finish with some sandpaper on a block so you have a more smooth surface.

The real danger of doing it yourself is over doing it. If you go too far and take away too much, then it isn't going to fit. If that is the case you might be sunk for using that particular type of pickup, and either have to consider something else, or start again with a new bridge. Harder to do if you are using something like 150-300 sandpaper on a block than a knife or a rasp, but still possible.

 

[Steve Freides]

I use an emery board.

I have that!

Fitting a BassMax is much less of a chore than is fitting the Rev Solo. Badger is dead on that the surface of the latter has to remain absolutely flat. The BassMax has a springy cushion and that allows for a much greater tolerance for error. Alas, you don't get something for nothing. A properly fitted Rev Solo is in a different league than the BassMax. I never liked the sound of a BassMax. IMO, it's a crude device that makes a DB sound like a BG.

TEHO.

1. I have a Rev Solo - have never used it, came on one of my recent purchases but I never tried it. That bass is getting a new bridge and fitted for a Bass Max, so maybe I will play around a little at home and see if I can come up with a spacing that fits both - ? - they look about the same size.

You have to remember that I don't play amplified very often and I don't think anyone's bass sounds good amplified in any way, so as long as it's not awful, and I haven't found the Bass Max awful, I confess - no disrespect to those who pay lots of attention to their amplified sounds - it's just not that important to me. I used a Bass Max on a plywood bass through a Phil Jones Double Four a week ago and got lots of compliments about how good it sounded. I used a Fishman Platinum preamp, bought used here, for the first time - I think that helped my cause.

2. For pickups where the space in the wing is too big, isn't it OK to use a bit of thin cork or even cardboard?

3. TEHO - Google say "To Each His Own" - that's a new acronym for me.

-S-

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Saxophone reeds or thin poplar laminate work well for shims, cut to size with kitchen shears.

Be sure to clean the emery board well before returning it to the nail kit...

 

[MikeCanada]

The Bass Max appears to be some sort of rubber where the Rev Solo is spruce so even if they are relatively the same thickness, the Bass Max will likely need a smaller gap because it will compress far more than the spruce. You can reduce the thickness of the Rev Solo, but I'm not sure how much so. I am sure you could contact Upton and see what they have to say about that, and they do have an option where you can send one back to them and they will refurbish it for you. I am not Upton and have no idea what they do with it, but I am assuming that involves replacing the spruce part and retaining the rest of the pickup.

I would suggest that if you went too far and had to shim, you are going to want a harder material than cork or cardboard, and the Sheriff's suggestion of sax reeds or poplar could work. A maple veneer would be the same material as the bridge and spruce would be the same as the pickup for the Rev Solo which would likely be the most desirable material after not goosing it and not using a shim. Pressure fitting that shim is a much better idea than trying to glue it in there.

As far as amplified sounds go it really depends on the bass, the pickup, the installation of the pickup, what comes after it, and the technique of the player. I have heard some fantastic amplified sounds and some terrible ones. Some of them are pretty similar to what that particular bass and bassist sound like unamplified, some of them are not. To get an amplified sound you really like, it is something you need to spend some time on and work with. Typically the pickup/amplifier exaggerates your technique shortcomings particularly things like bow changes that aren't very clean, or dynamic inconsistencies where you get some notes unintentionally popping out of pizz lines because your attack is not even. While addressing those issues is a good idea, the guys with the best amplified sounds tend to embrace the difference created by amplification and incorporate it into their sound, instead of trying to overcome it. While not all pickups are created equal and things like preamps can help significantly, I think the best course of action is to find something that works relatively well for you, spend some time getting to know it, and embrace the limitations/possibilities instead of trying to chase down the mythical combination of gear that gives you exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Steve Freides]

Saxophone reeds or thin poplar laminate work well for shims, cut to size with kitchen shears.

I've got sax reeds, too - I had to learn to play it a little last year (long story) and we had one from when my kids played in middle school. We've actually got an alto and a tenor. My wife says it sounds like we have a goose in the house when I play saxophone.

@MikeCanada, I avoid amplified arco like the plague, but fortunately for me, most of what I need to do amplified is jazz/standards. I played a show when I'd been playing upright for all of 5 weeks, with a pickup, and it had a few arco passages in it - the experience left me scarred for life.

-S-

 

[MikeCanada]

I agree that amplified arco is more often than not a very unpleasant experience. I have found that your best options for that tend to be a microphone, which may or may not be an option, or a contact mic pickup instead of one of the bridge pickup options. The idea being that you are amplifying the sound of the body of the instrument instead of the sound as it passes through the bridge. The downside being that bow mics and contact mics tend to be a lot more temperamental and prone to feedback, especially at higher volumes. Arco is louder than pizz as well so you end up playing softer in order to try to maintain an appropriate volume, which is sometimes the complete opposite of what you want to be doing musically.

In a perfect world when I'm doing shows I send a line from my amplifier to the board and have the bass mic'ed as well, and then they can blend that however they need to to get the best sound out front. In a not so perfect world they largely set it and forget it because they are more focused on the other things that are happening than the bass sound, and in reality a lot of the time there is no sound guy and occasionally no sound reinforcement either, so I just deal with the cards I am dealt.

 

[drurb]

...In a perfect world when I'm doing shows I send a line from my amplifier to the board and have the bass mic'ed as well...

You do shows in a perfect world? Now, that's something I want to see and hear!

 

[MikeCanada]

Some of the best (and worse) shows I played were while I was at university. College drama programs/clubs/societies tend to get a budget that I am sure all students are forced to pay into one way or another, and essentially get to do whatever they want with it. Consequently, there was a show where they went excessively over budget and there were last minute fund raising efforts when the college told them they were cut off, a show where one of the actresses/organizers decided to go "costume" shopping with a significant portion of the budget and keep the "costume" after the show, a few that didn't involve any more drama than one would expect in a college drama situation, (which is usually a pretty high threshold before you really start questioning things) and then the show in question.

The person who got to make decisions decided that instead of using the college's theatre, one of the other performance spaces on campus, (large campus, many venue choices) they wanted to do the production off campus at one of the "real" theatres. So we did, and they hired the house professional lights and professional sound, and it was probably the most "perfect world" scenario I personally experienced at a show. The catch? They blew their entire budget and then some on the venue so there were no props with the exception of a few plastic milk crates, and the cast had to purchase their own costumes after yet another appeal to the powers that be came back with "you blew your budget, it's your own problem". The program notes involved some inventive comments about minimalism and it came together fairly well all things considered. And after that, they didn't go off campus the rest of the time I was there, so maybe someone learned their lesson?