If I want to make a neck narrower...

[MCF]

Yes, you can cut a neck narrower, with the frets in place, using a large flat file. A standard file will cut the wood and the fretwire at the same time. Clamp the neck horizontally in a vise, fingerboard toward you, and stroke the file only in the direction pushing the frets into the wood. Don't drag the file back toward you, which might catch on the frets and pull them up. Obviously, work carefully so you don't cut dips in the edge of the neck between the frets.

Do the narrowing and shaping with a Bastard or 2nd Cut file. When you've got the width and shape where you want it, switch to a Smooth. Then go over the ends of the frets with a #2 Swiss file to get the Smooth file marks out. Then sand the edge of the neck to the level you want, probably 220 grit. And redo the ends of the frets, bevel, rounding, polish.

As I was reading through this, I thought of you and Jeremy and that I'd just take it to you guys.

 

[Markshan]

I'll read all of this later. I didn't expect this many responses except to say that I appreciate what Bruce shared because it makes perfect sense to me and sounds not horribly difficult.

Perhaps a little more context will help everyone understand why I asked. I am taking a half size child's guitar that has been sitting in a closet for 20 years and turning it into an electric U-Bass. As soon as I saw that they had steel wound U-Bass strings I knew what I had to do.

I've upgraded several other instruments so I had the old bridges and tuners sitting in a drawer, so this is really just a fun little experiment that only cost me the 30 bucks for the set of strings.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

It's the metal frets embedded in the wood being cut at all at once that gives me pause. I also read the OPs profile, which suggests that he is not an experienced woodworker.

Did you bother to read his build thread? I mean heck, I deliberately describe myself as a wooddorker, but it's not launching rockets with a defined destination and mixing up pounds and Newtons over at Lockheed-Martin so it burns to a crisp.

 

[Markshan]

Here is what some butcher did to it in a previous life...

I feel fairly confident that I won't make it any worse at the very least.

 

[logdrum]

Perry from Unga guitars (now in Albuquerque), I've seen him do it by hand on a customer neck that needed to be narrowed front to back. He said even narrowing the width can be done but may have to remove some of the frets or not. But that's him. He can shape a neck from scratch in just over an hour with hand tools. Working for Santa Cruz guitars probably helped in having that skill

 

[Markshan]

Out of curiosity…why not get a replacement neck?

With all due respect, and as @ArteK said, it is usually less expensive in the long run, especially if the neck has standard Fender-style dimensions, to purchase a new neck with the preferred width at the nut. Much better results; much less chance of ****-ups.

It seems as though the OP may not have the experience for what seems like a pretty complicated job. His profile states "I don't know what I'm doing"

All of this is true, but I can tell you two stories that may help clarify things.

First story. I came here a little over a year ago with the goal of fixing a couple of wall hangers I had and building a couple of kits. I figured this would be a good way to educate myself to eventually do my dream scratch build. I started by fixing an old Beatle Bass copy that had been relegated to unplayable status for at least 30 years. At that point I really didn't know anything, but with a lot of tenacity and more than a little gentle guidance and generous sharing of knowledge from experienced luthiers like Bruce, Matt, Beej, Turnaround and many others I was able to get an old piece of crap playable again. I'm not exaggerating when I say any skilled craftsmen (and likely plenty of unskilled ones) would have gone into four figures to do what I did. As a first project I am VERY proud of what I was able to accomplish.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/trying-to-fix-a-worthless-bass.1606233/

Then I did two kits. A Steinberger style bass that I bought before I knew anything. But even knowing nothing it was obvious to me that it was going to be a challenge, so I also bought a six string Tele kit to work on first. My next two planned projects are a scratch body with a purchased neck and a fretless conversion where I plan to remove the old fingerboard entirely and install a synthetic ebony fretboard. My hope is that by the time I've handled those two projects I will be ready to attempt a scratch neck.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/should-i-document-my-kit-builds-here.1617525/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/wbo-24-best-bass-to-root-root-root-for-the-home-team.1635391/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/will-this-project-cut-it.1630213/

Second story (I understand if it's TLDR, but it should explain everything). I started playing bass at 12 and have always wanted to build one. I was quite busy in high school, playing in bands and doing musical theater, so I couldn't really pack anything else in. Then I went to Conservatory, studied opera (I'm a high lyric tenor, in those days I could pound out high Cs with exactly the same confidence as notes an octave lower.) Then I worked retail as I pursued gigs, etc.. I got married and after ten years we never had any kids in spite of never trying to prevent it, so we adopted two siblings, one of whom is very special needs. You can't keep sharp tools around when you live with a five foot four year old with impulse control issues. In 2019 my wife got a diagnosis of early onset Alzheimer's. My daughter was already living on her own, but we then set about finding an appropriate long term solution for my son's living needs. We had hoped to wait a few more years but she wanted to be part of the process while she still could and I knew that her needs were going to advance to the point where I couldn't possibly care for both of them at home. So we got him placed and not long after Covid hit. I'm an x-ray tech and was one of the people who never even missed a day of work during forced isolation because I was an essential worker (yay me.) Socialization is very important for Alzheimer's patients and she spending half of her life home alone. She quickly deteriorated as a result. Fifteen months ago I made the greuling decision that I could not keep her safe at home any longer and placed her in a locked memory care unit. For about two months after I went through extreme depression (first time in my life, survivor guilt is real.) Like the kind where my mind knew my body still functioned but yet I couldn't get out of bed. Then one day I woke up and said "Well God, I guess you've decided to keep me around for a reason, I had better figure out what it is". I went back to gigging, once again took over the position of music minister in my church and pursued my lifelong dream of building my own instruments. The last one was probably the most important because I am still young (-ish) and having something productive to do with my evening free time which had always been very much filled up with family concerns was incredibly important to my transitioning to living on my own (and I got a cat, I hated coming home to an empty house). I am probably not exaggerating to say that making sawdust has probably saved my life. My wife passed two weeks ago. Perhaps on some subconscious level that is part of why I picked up a new project when it presented itself.

So @iiipopes , I actually live for f***ups because they are learning experiences. That has always been my approach to life and is certainly my approach to lutherie. @DanAdams , when I came here I didn't know anything, but I am learning. An old friend from high school came to see me earlier in the week and I said something about how self indulgent my hobbies feel. He answered that most people who had gone through what I did would probably spent their non-working hours on a barstool if they managed to even survive it at all. I suppose that is likely true. Plus making sawdust is much cheaper than therapy.

Sorry for the long post that actually doesn't have anything to do with building guitars. Or does it have everything to do with building guitars? Either way...

 

[faulknersj]

All of this is true, but I can tell you two stories that may help clarify things.

First story. I came here a little over a year ago with the goal of fixing a couple of wall hangers I had and building a couple of kits. I figured this would be a good way to educate myself to eventually do my dream scratch build. I started by fixing an old Beatle Bass copy that had been relegated to unplayable status for at least 30 years. At that point I really didn't know anything, but with a lot of tenacity and more than a little gentle guidance and generous sharing of knowledge from experienced luthiers like Bruce, Matt, Beej, Turnaround and many others I was able to get an old piece of crap playable again. I'm not exaggerating when I say any skilled craftsmen (and likely plenty of unskilled ones) would have gone into four figures to do what I did. As a first project I am VERY proud of what I was able to accomplish.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/trying-to-fix-a-worthless-bass.1606233/

Then I did two kits. A Steinberger style bass that I bought before I knew anything. But even knowing nothing it was obvious to me that it was going to be a challenge, so I also bought a six string Tele kit to work on first. My next two planned projects are a scratch body with a purchased neck and a fretless conversion where I plan to remove the old fingerboard entirely and install a synthetic ebony fretboard. My hope is that by the time I've handled those two projects I will be ready to attempt a scratch neck.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/should-i-document-my-kit-builds-here.1617525/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/wbo-24-best-bass-to-root-root-root-for-the-home-team.1635391/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/will-this-project-cut-it.1630213/

Second story (I understand if it's TLDR, but it should explain everything). I started playing bass at 12 and have always wanted to build one. I was quite busy in high school, playing in bands and doing musical theater, so I couldn't really pack anything else in. Then I went to Conservatory, studied opera (I'm a high lyric tenor, in those days I could pound out high Cs with exactly the same confidence as notes an octave lower.) Then I worked retail as I pursued gigs, etc.. I got married and after ten years we never had any kids in spite of never trying to prevent it, so we adopted two siblings, one of whom is very special needs. You can't keep sharp tools around when you live with a five foot four year old with impulse control issues. In 2019 my wife got a diagnosis of early onset Alzheimer's. My daughter was already living on her own, but we then set about finding an appropriate long term solution for my son's living needs. We had hoped to wait a few more years but she wanted to be part of the process while she still could and I knew that her needs were going to advance to the point where I couldn't possibly care for both of them at home. So we got him placed and not long after Covid hit. I'm an x-ray tech and was one of the people who never even missed a day of work during forced isolation because I was an essential worker (yay me.) Socialization is very important for Alzheimer's patients and she spending half of her life home alone. She quickly deteriorated as a result. Fifteen months ago I made the greuling decision that I could not keep her safe at home any longer and placed her in a locked memory care unit. For about two months after I went through extreme depression (first time in my life, survivor guilt is real.) Like the kind where my mind knew my body still functioned but yet I couldn't get out of bed. Then one day I woke up and said "Well God, I guess you've decided to keep me around for a reason, I had better figure out what it is". I went back to gigging, once again took over the position of music minister in my church and pursued my lifelong dream of building my own instruments. The last one was probably the most important because I am still young (-ish) and having something productive to do with my evening free time which had always been very much filled up with family concerns was incredibly important to my transitioning to living on my own (and I got a cat, I hated coming home to an empty house). I am probably not exaggerating to say that making sawdust has probably saved my life. My wife passed two weeks ago. Perhaps on some subconscious level that is part of why I picked up a new project when it presented itself.

So @iiipopes , I actually live for f***ups because they are learning experiences. That has always been my approach to life and is certainly my approach to lutherie. @DanAdams , when I came here I didn't know anything, but I am learning. An old friend from high school came to see me earlier in the week and I said something about how self indulgent my hobbies feel. He answered that most people who had gone through what I did would probably spent their non-working hours on a barstool if they managed to even survive it at all. I suppose that is likely true. Plus making sawdust is much cheaper than therapy.

Sorry for the long post that actually doesn't have anything to do with building guitars. Or does it have everything to do with building guitars? Either way...

Best response to a question I have ever seen on TB. Ever.

Looking forward to learning from your mistakes here good sir!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

All of this is true, but I can tell you two stories that may help clarify things.

First story. I came here a little over a year ago with the goal of fixing a couple of wall hangers I had and building a couple of kits. I figured this would be a good way to educate myself to eventually do my dream scratch build. I started by fixing an old Beatle Bass copy that had been relegated to unplayable status for at least 30 years. At that point I really didn't know anything, but with a lot of tenacity and more than a little gentle guidance and generous sharing of knowledge from experienced luthiers like Bruce, Matt, Beej, Turnaround and many others I was able to get an old piece of crap playable again. I'm not exaggerating when I say any skilled craftsmen (and likely plenty of unskilled ones) would have gone into four figures to do what I did. As a first project I am VERY proud of what I was able to accomplish.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/trying-to-fix-a-worthless-bass.1606233/

Then I did two kits. A Steinberger style bass that I bought before I knew anything. But even knowing nothing it was obvious to me that it was going to be a challenge, so I also bought a six string Tele kit to work on first. My next two planned projects are a scratch body with a purchased neck and a fretless conversion where I plan to remove the old fingerboard entirely and install a synthetic ebony fretboard. My hope is that by the time I've handled those two projects I will be ready to attempt a scratch neck.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/should-i-document-my-kit-builds-here.1617525/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/wbo-24-best-bass-to-root-root-root-for-the-home-team.1635391/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/will-this-project-cut-it.1630213/

Second story (I understand if it's TLDR, but it should explain everything). I started playing bass at 12 and have always wanted to build one. I was quite busy in high school, playing in bands and doing musical theater, so I couldn't really pack anything else in. Then I went to Conservatory, studied opera (I'm a high lyric tenor, in those days I could pound out high Cs with exactly the same confidence as notes an octave lower.) Then I worked retail as I pursued gigs, etc.. I got married and after ten years we never had any kids in spite of never trying to prevent it, so we adopted two siblings, one of whom is very special needs. You can't keep sharp tools around when you live with a five foot four year old with impulse control issues. In 2019 my wife got a diagnosis of early onset Alzheimer's. My daughter was already living on her own, but we then set about finding an appropriate long term solution for my son's living needs. We had hoped to wait a few more years but she wanted to be part of the process while she still could and I knew that her needs were going to advance to the point where I couldn't possibly care for both of them at home. So we got him placed and not long after Covid hit. I'm an x-ray tech and was one of the people who never even missed a day of work during forced isolation because I was an essential worker (yay me.) Socialization is very important for Alzheimer's patients and she spending half of her life home alone. She quickly deteriorated as a result. Fifteen months ago I made the greuling decision that I could not keep her safe at home any longer and placed her in a locked memory care unit. For about two months after I went through extreme depression (first time in my life, survivor guilt is real.) Like the kind where my mind knew my body still functioned but yet I couldn't get out of bed. Then one day I woke up and said "Well God, I guess you've decided to keep me around for a reason, I had better figure out what it is". I went back to gigging, once again took over the position of music minister in my church and pursued my lifelong dream of building my own instruments. The last one was probably the most important because I am still young (-ish) and having something productive to do with my evening free time which had always been very much filled up with family concerns was incredibly important to my transitioning to living on my own (and I got a cat, I hated coming home to an empty house). I am probably not exaggerating to say that making sawdust has probably saved my life. My wife passed two weeks ago. Perhaps on some subconscious level that is part of why I picked up a new project when it presented itself.

So @iiipopes , I actually live for f***ups because they are learning experiences. That has always been my approach to life and is certainly my approach to lutherie. @DanAdams , when I came here I didn't know anything, but I am learning. An old friend from high school came to see me earlier in the week and I said something about how self indulgent my hobbies feel. He answered that most people who had gone through what I did would probably spent their non-working hours on a barstool if they managed to even survive it at all. I suppose that is likely true. Plus making sawdust is much cheaper than therapy.

Sorry for the long post that actually doesn't have anything to do with building guitars. Or does it have everything to do with building guitars? Either way...

I don't know that I'd call myself an experienced luthier but I'm honoured I could help in your journey. I know you've mentioned parts of it but the whole story didn't click until I read your post. I salute your perseverance. I'm not sure I'd make it through all of that.

 

[Markshan]

I don't know that I'd call myself an experienced luthier but I'm honoured I could help in your journey. I know you've mentioned parts of it but the whole story didn't click until I read your post. I salute your perseverance. I'm not sure I'd make it through all of that.

I don't think I've ever told the whole story here before. Frankly I don't think I've told the whole story yet. I could probably write a book if I really wanted to. But a couple people on this thread asked questions that no one has asked before and I didn't know how else to answer them. So there it is.

 

[Freekmagnet]

I say it can be done. Go for it.

 

[Markshan]

Best response to a question I have ever seen on TB. Ever.

My wife's best friend who has helped me a lot through this journey would tell me that I am oversharing and that this isn't the kind of thing that one should put on the Internet. I'm certain that at least a few people will read my post and be made deeply uncomfortable.

 

[rudy4444]

I'll read all of this later. I didn't expect this many responses except to say that I appreciate what Bruce shared because it makes perfect sense to me and sounds not horribly difficult.

Perhaps a little more context will help everyone understand why I asked. I am taking a half size child's guitar that has been sitting in a closet for 20 years and turning it into an electric U-Bass. As soon as I saw that they had steel wound U-Bass strings I knew what I had to do.

I've upgraded several other instruments so I had the old bridges and tuners sitting in a drawer, so this is really just a fun little experiment that only cost me the 30 bucks for the set of strings.

I totally get that. Bruce's file method is a good practical way to get the job done. I narrowed the neck on a mini-strat to convert it to an electric octave mandolin and used a small belt sander to narrow the neck and it was quite easy to do. That project is documented over on the e-mando website if you want to see how that was done. Sanding is done by alternating the sides of the neck frequently to avoid any heat build up.

Mini Strat to octave mandolin project

 

[Beej]

My wife's best friend who has helped me a lot through this journey would tell me that I am oversharing and that this isn't the kind of thing that one should put on the Internet. I'm certain that at least a few people will read my post and be made deeply uncomfortable.

IMHO, only you get to decide if it's oversharing. Thank you for sharing all of this, I'm so sorry about your wife, and I'm glad you have found things to help bridge your needs. And I feel very honored to read it, and I'm doubly honored to be part of any supports you may have valued in your journey. I wish TB had a hug or heart emoji.

 

[Markshan]

I totally get that. Bruce's file method is a good practical way to get the job done. I narrowed the neck on a mini-strat to convert it to an electric octave mandolin and used a small belt sander to narrow the neck and it was quite easy to do. That project is documented over on the e-mando website if you want to see how that was done. Sanding is done by alternating the sides of the neck frequently to avoid any heat build up.

Mini Strat to octave mandolin project

The e-mamdo site? The internet really does have everything.

 

[NedRyerson]

Sorry for the long post that actually doesn't have anything to do with building guitars. Or does it have everything to do with building guitars? Either way...

It has everything to do with building guitars. I know I'm going to have to make similar decisions myself in the future. My son is still only 11, but he's getting bigger and stronger, and I'm eventually going to be at the point where I can't physically handle him if/when things go sour (like yesterday; he resisted getting on the school bus so hard that I was afraid he was going to launch us from the top of the steps back onto my concrete driveway....then because of the wrestling I had to do to get him secured in his seat, my back went out). My daughter isn't as severely affected as him, but independent living for her is going to be very unlikely.

Parkinson's runs in my wife's family, as does numerous forms of cancer, so she always joked that it's not a matter of if she gets cancer but which one. Morbid humor when we were in our 20s, but not so humorous now that I'm in my 50s and she's getting close to 50.

So I get it, brother.

 

[Markshan]

It has everything to do with building guitars. I know I'm going to have to make similar decisions myself in the future. My son is still only 11, but he's getting bigger and stronger, and I'm eventually going to be at the point where I can't physically handle him if/when things go sour (like yesterday; he resisted getting on the school bus so hard that I was afraid he was going to launch us from the top of the steps back onto my concrete driveway....then because of the wrestling I had to do to get him secured in his seat, my back went out). My daughter isn't as severely affected as him, but independent living for her is going to be very unlikely.

Parkinson's runs in my wife's family, as does numerous forms of cancer, so she always joked that it's not a matter of if she gets cancer but which one. Morbid humor when we were in our 20s, but not so humorous now that I'm in my 50s and she's getting close to 50.

So I get it, brother.

If you ever need to talk just shoot me a PM. Sometimes it's helpful to know that somebody made it to the other side successfully.

And by the way, Jerome has turned out to be a very fine young man. The teen years are hard for even normally abled people, they're very very hard for people with special needs. You'll get him through it.

 

[Beej]

Here in BC, we do a lot of 'home-sharing' for differently abled adults and my wife and I have shared with folks since about 2000, in addition to providing short term respite for others. The govt agencies encourage life-long relationships and carefully match families to people and so our experiences have been wonderful. One fellow is about to turn 50 and I know from speaking to his 85 year old mom, that knowing he has a family to live with who understands him and loves him gave her the single greatest sense of relief in her life.

 

[Markshan]

Canada does everything better. It's like the USA without our level of corruption.

 

[Beej]

Canada does everything better. It's like the USA without our level of corruption.

Trust me, things are equally good and terrible and we have deep levels of corruption spoken with a funny accent.

 

[Markshan]

Back to our regularly scheduled program...

Given the way someone had hacked at it earlier I didn't feel like I could just remove a certain amount from each side. I couldn't be certain that the sides had been butchered in equal amounts, LOL. So I used the position markers to determine the center line and put a mark there above where the nut was. Then from that mark I measured 3/4 of an inch in each direction and made edge marks there. Then I took a straight edge and Drew lines from the marks to the 11th fret. The one on the right I drew twice because I didn't get it quite right the first time. The one closer to the edge is the correct line. So now I will file with those marks as my goal.