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If only I knew then what I know now...

#221
derrico1 said:
1. In most genres, the max vocal levels dictate the band's overall volume. If your drummer/guitarist/horn section/whatever can't play *under* the vocals, it's time for a new one. Quick check: when auditioning new players, call for a fade-out ending on the first tune. If they don't have the control to fade (or if their tone goes to mush when they fade), move on.

2. It's not *all* about the hang, but still. . . . Eventually, abrasive bandmates will cause the band trouble. Even if the rest of you are willing to put up with a jerk, there will be a long line of club owners, promoters, waitstaff, fans, cops, etc. who will hold it against the band that one of you is an a$$hat.
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Is anyone hip to fading out as a skill ? I thought that came from studio/radio cuts.
 
#224
If you do have a chick singer, make sure she plays something, owns some of the equipment, carries stuff to the truck after the job and isn't a Princess or, godforbid self-proclaimed diva.I don't care if she ust got her nails done. In over 40 years I've played with only 2 women who were worth a damn and it's because they left their gender at the door. The death knell of so many bands is "My girlfriend is going to sing a couple of songs."
 
#225
AdamR said:
Good list, Im currently dealing with #4 Ive been playing guitar (sorry) in this band for a year and a half. Our bass player still doesnt know all the music, passes out at practicen and either plays so low you cant hear (maybe a good thing) or plays so loud hes all you hear.

He's been given about 10 last chances, I've lined up a replacement guitarist so I can go back to bass but the excuses keep coming. Usually its (well hes a friend and hes been here from the beginning).
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Similar thing happening in our band - bassist frequently not turning up, to the point that many of our newer songs are 3-piece line-ups - with me on bass. To be fair, the reason he's been away for so long recently is because he broke his wrist - and I'm not going to blame him for that - but he only plays root notes, and often makes mistakes in the songs (and they aren't complex chord progressions). Sometimes, though, the reasons he hasn't been at practice are things like his football conflicting with band practice. To add onto that, the number of gigs we had last year? 1. The number of gigs we will likely have this year? 2. Starting to get a bit annoyed with the band I'm in - but then, I really like the music we're playing. And on top of that, its my first band...

Anyway... /rant.
 
#228
Important frosting to add to the cake:

Dress well and hire a good front person, preferably female.

The audience listens with their eyes first. 90% of them have no idea about what you are playing or how good you are, but if you look sharp and hip, in their eyes you sound better and are more professional. Put some care into your look. A line of sloppy guys in sunglasses and cargo shorts playing behind a chick singer who is beautifully dressed in the right stuff for whatever genre their playing looks amateurish. When in doubt, wear black. And no dark glasses indoors unless you are blind. Hats are good. When you walk into the room, people should point and whisper and go.....that's the BAND! Look the part!

Mixed gender bands are more engaging to the audience. Always. Their also more drama-prone and have the potential for sex-related arguments and breakups if the relationships are not stable going in. Choose your chick with care. No psycho divas, no band-bed hoppers, no depressed alcoholics, no new girlfriends. Stable wives of bandmates who are musicians in their own right are a good find. Get a real musician who knows her keys, arrangements, etc. and knows how to move well on stage. Do NOT give her a tambourine, contrary to stereotype. It's the loudest thing in the band, and i've never met anyone but a real drummer or professional backline singer that could play it right.

Now here's the weird part - Extreme sexiness, beauty, hottie-ness is actually a detriment to a performing live band, because the women in the audience will jealously hate her and take their googly-eyed men home early. oops! It's the presence of women (who initiate the dance floor action!) in a bar/lounge that makes men $how up and buy drink$ and give the owners rea$on to hire bands.,
However your front person should be attractively acceptable (hair, dressing, makeup, smile etc more important than shape and size) and more importantly, be friendly and able to socialize with the band and the audience and the waitstaff. A good front person is FAR more valuable *to the audience and venue* than any sort of instrumental hot-dogging you and the guys come up with. Get over it. :)
 
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#229
trkelley said:
Important frosting to add to the cake:

1) Dress well
2) hire a good front person
3) preferably female.

The audience listens with their eyes first. 90% of them have no idea about what you are playing or how good you are, but if you

4)look sharp
5)and hip,

in their eyes you sound better and are more professional. Put some care into your look. A line of sloppy guys in sunglasses and cargo shorts playing behind a chick singer who is beautifully dressed in the right stuff for whatever genre their playing looks amateurish. When in doubt,

6)wear black. And
7) no dark glasses indoors unless you are blind.
8) Hats are good.

When you walk into the room,

9) people should point and whisper and go.....that's the BAND!
10) Look the part!
11) Mixed gender bands are more engaging to the audience. Always.

Their also more drama-prone and have the potential for sex-related arguments and breakups if the relationships are not stable going in.

12) Choose your chick with care.
13) No psycho divas,
14) no band-bed hoppers,
15) no depressed alcoholics,
16) no new girlfriends.
17) Stable wives of bandmates who are musicians in their own right are a good find.
18) Get a real musician who knows her keys, arrangements, etc.
19) and knows how to move well on stage.
20) Do NOT give her a tambourine,

contrary to stereotype. It's the loudest thing in the band, and i've never met anyone but a real drummer or professional backline singer that could play it right.

Now here's the weird part -

21) Extreme sexiness, beauty, hottie-ness is actually a detriment to a performing live band,
because the women in the audience will jealously hate her and take their googly-eyed men home early. oops!

It's the presence of women (who initiate the dance floor action!) in a bar/lounge that makes men $how up and buy drink$ and give the owners rea$on to hire bands.,

22) However your front person should be attractively acceptable:
23) (hair,
24)dressing,
25) makeup,
26) smile etc more important than shape and size)

and more importantly,

27) be friendly and
28)able to socialize with the band and the audience and the waitstaff.
29) A good front person is FAR more valuable *to the audience and venue*

than any sort of instrumental hot-dogging you and the guys come up with. Get over it. :)
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Based on your requirements, it's a wonder that any band ever gets to play out, especially if you apply them to all the members of a band. :atoz:

Good luck with that. :atoz:
 
#231
1954bassman said:
I thought he was right on. We have three women who all sing and play multipule instruments, and they are all fairly attractive. We don't wear hats, but other than that, we fit most of his list.
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I agree. It may seem like too much but it's really not. The fact is, if you don't follow alot of that advice, the band might be over before anyone even realizes it.
 
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#232
17) Stable wives of bandmates who are musicians in their own right are a good find. -- I can agree with that.

21) Extreme sexiness, beauty, hottie-ness is actually a detriment to a performing live band, because the women in the audience will jealously hate her and take their googly-eyed men home early. oops! -- I can't get on board with this one - for our gigs, it's about perceived availability. Having a couple of really attractive women on stage that are great to look at but who are obviously presenting a professional delivery without any sort of sluttiness is a win - they come across as non-threatening rockers that women can identify with, and guys (with our fabulous egos) can *still* privately think 'she's checking me out,' etc. :) For our shows, the women tend to know all the words and sing along with a lot of the songs, and if it's a club or theater date, it often ends up with a 'girl power' sort of vibe. The thing is, if you bring the women in, the guys are going to be at your show spending money, and a good looking rocking chick singer will bring in more women than 99% of your male front guys. I don't see any reason not to put the most attractive chicks you can find right up front (as long as they can belt the tunes, obviously), as long as they don't come across slutty - at least for the places we play.
 
#234
From TBr Jive1's post in the thread http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f67/justify-playing-free-881406/ . The whole thread is an interesting read.

"IMHE, to really set yourselves apart musically and take a path that's harder for others follow, but possibly more lucrative you need to do some or all of the following:
- Great vocals, including strong harmonies. Harmonies are ear candy for the non-musician.
- Solid musicianship. Not necessarily virtuoso level, but tight as a band.
- Visual appeal. Whether it's lighting, clothing, or movement on stage, it'll make you more money.
- Excellent sound. From full sounding arrangements to an excellent sound reinforcement system, it will set your band apart.
- Repertoire that's in demand but hard to duplicate. If you're an original band, you need good songs.
- Excellent relationships with promoters, booking agents, bar mangers, club owners, event planners, etc.
- If you are an original band, an image and scene to be a part of.
- A solid and consistent lineup of players. Probably the hardest thing to accomplish other than booking and promoting.

Using a lawn cutting example, if you want to make the money, take on the jobs that the kid down the street can't do with his parent's lawn mower. Get the big jobs that require equipment that the kid can't afford, skills that the kid doesn't have, and connections the kid can't make."
 
#236
Check out venues in your area and make note of successful band's set lists.

Once you start gigging, keep notes of what songs get the most people out on the floor. Replace the songs (no matter how much anyone likes them) that don't measure up.

A great sounding PA is worth more than you pay for it.

Get a wireless setup so you can go FOH to control your band's sound if you don't have a sound person. Recheck a few times during a gig.

Get each new member to agree that you control their gig volume for the betterment of the band. If they can't/won't agree then find someone else, especially drummers. IME, pros can get their "tone" at any volume.
 
#237
From the thread Tyrant Music Leader about playing in a praise/worship group.

1954bassman said:
Okay, I am gonna throw my hat in the ring. You and I share a lot of common ground: I have been playing for about 45 years, I grew up playing in honky-tonks and illegal bars. Through the years I have played in just about every type of band out there. In 1988, my life got turned around, and I have played only Christian music since then.

I started playing fretless about 20 years ago, and I now see fretless as my main enjoyment. I do still play fretted basses also. All 5'ers by the way.

Here is my offering:

Please know, I am just trying too help out, and I certainly am not trying to cast any accusations.

1. The bass chair is any band is a servant / support postion.

2. To a certain degree, all BLs (aka Worship Leaders) are at times hard to work with. Myself, I see this as a two-way street. Make yourself overly accommodating, and both sides win.

3. Start with as simple a set-up as possible

4. A praise band at church is very different from a working, gigging band. If you burn the mid-night oil getting a complex song down, chances are very good no one else will even practice it outside of rehearsal. So be flexible on arrangements and chord changes. Be prepared to play songs "wrong".

5. I would let the whole fretless / fretted thing slide , and later on work your fretless in a low key manner. Another thought concerning fretless is the BL may not even know what you mean by fretless, maybe he pictures an upright, or maybe he has some negative connotation when he thinks "fretless".

6. Probably the last thing I would do is confront him, calling him names, try to "level" the ground with self-edifying commits, or even being pushy and "demanding" an audition.

7. Just be honest and up-front. Tell him your exprience playing praise music. Make him aware you are a serious musician, and would be dependable, and prompt. Inform him of your practice habits outside of rehearsal time.

8. Make yourself available and be as flexiable as you can. Make sure any commitment you are required to make is one that you will have no problem keeping.

9. Again, I personally would avoid confrontation, Commit to being a dedicated band member, offer your talent, and go into all this with a mindset to serve.
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jive1 said:
I play fretless at church, and haven't seen a reason yet why it won't fit. But there's some points I'd like to make.

First off, you guys are passing alot of judgement and making negative assumptions about a guy that you don't know or haven't met yet. Too often what someone says about someone prior to meeting them will taint the way you see them and interact with them once you finally meet or work with them. My policy, I'll give you the opportunity to prove that you are a jerk, tyrant, etc. before I think you are one. I think the guy's reputation may have tainted your experience with him, and had you loaded for bear when you didn't need to.

Second, the person you should be talking to about all this is the WL. When he said that there wouldn't be much need for fretless, you should have continued the discussion there, not on this board. If you're going to work with the guy, you will need to communicate with him/her sooner or later. Maybe the guy had bad experiences with a fretless or doesn't know much, and may be open to it. Maybe the guy has a clear vision that he doesn't want to deviate from.

Third, you're there to serve. Leave the ego at home. If you're in a huff and finding the need to vent because someone won't let you use one of your toys, you should rethink why you're doing this. The WL at my church doesn't like me to play busy bass-lines or groove too much because it may distract from the message or the spirit of the song, meditation, etc. Having played urban Gospel at a previous church, it was a change for me, but I could understand where he's coming from. It's not about me, or my expression, it's about service.

Before you make any decisions, talk to the WL some more before taking the jump-to-conclusions, mob approach of an online forum. Being a WL involves taking input from many different people from musicians, pastor, congregants, commitees, etc. and trying to piece them together into something workable. Something will have to give, otherwise you'd have a worship team full of so-and-so's kid who started taking lessons last month, the guy who feels 'called' to be a musician even though they never played an instrument before, satan worshippers who are looking to make a quick buck to buy animal sacrifices, a choir full of out of tune singers, etc. You'll be doing old hymns, CCM, gospel, secular songs, Christian metal fused with Gospel Hip Hop, hootenany campfire retreat songs and gregorian chants, with solos for flute, bass, clarinet, tuba, guitar, keyboard, all taken at random places within a song depending on how the musicians feel at the moment.
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#238
One thing that I've found that works especially in a new band that doesn't have a tour manager is for each person in the band to inventory their own gear... When I pack up to go to a gig I take a bag (mine is a Rok Sak) that I put just the cables pedals picks and whatnot that I intend to use that night. I have a separate pocket that I keep a spare cable, picks and a spare DI just in case. When I set up I stow the bag behind my amp and when our set is through I tear down my amp and everything goes back in the bag. That way I know I have everything I brought. I encourage the guitar players in my band to do the same. Now I've got the singer to bring a bag. He only has to keep track of like 5 things and he almost always forgets something.

Another thing I recommend is bringing a small tool kit just in case... I actually took apart another bands amp while they played a few songs with one guitar, fixed the jack and had them up and running in 10 minutes. Luckily the guy had the same amp that I do so I knew where everything was.
 
#239
azureblue said:
Your son got screwed. My step son had this happen to him in a Euro tour - he was quoted a salary, and a per diem, but once they got there, the per diem was cut in half and he didn't get but $400 for a $2000 pay. What happened? As in the case with your son, there was no contract. The agreement was "between friends". <Always have a contract!> Make sure it includes the following things:
1: Pay
2: Per Diem
3: Any other travel expenses, like lodging, and very important, airline tickets, bus tickets, etc. - who pays that? IF the band member does not have a passport, who pays for that?
4: Equipment responsibility - what happens if gear is lost or stolen (insurance)
5: Bail out or termination of tour clause. For instance if a band member gets sick on the road and the tour has to be cancelled, or venues cancel dates, etc. Does everyone still get paid in full, or in proportion? This is where the "Act of God" clause goes, too.
6: Who is hiring and all of the contact info
7: Who is paying, and all of their contact info. And the person that is paying or hiring is the one who should sign the contract. If there is no business entity, then the contract must be between that person and the musician.
7: Method of pay and final pay date
8: IMPORTANT: Penalty clause for breach of contract. Something that has phrases in it like" Failure to fulfill contract by x date will make to signer responsible for all costs of recovery, including court fees, attorney fees, travel fees, and an interest rate of 20% per month.
9: And just as important, A copy of the tour book, that includes the dates of the shows, the venues, where the band will stay on that date, how the band will get from one gig to the next and contact info for the venues, the lodging, etc., plus the contact info for the tour manager and all band members, and the band's attorney, if there is one.
10: Who is the person who will get the band out of a jam, if they get into trouble at customs, with the local police, etc.? I would also ask for the number of the US consulate in each country they will be in, too.

Get the contract signed and copies given to all parties at least a month before going out.

11: the band member should have with him at all times, a pre paid cell phone that will work in all countries, to be used in case of emergencies. In addition to his "regular" cellphone, BTW. This is in case his regular phone gets lost, damaged or stolen. It should have the home number on speed dial, and set up so that anyone can pick it up and call home. Should the band member get jailed, sick, injured, abandoned, in trouble with the locals or the local police, he will need a sure way to call home.

My Stepson's headliner got into trouble in the Slavic countries and the idiot headliner barely missed spending weeks in a jail cell. The headliner was on a quest to get laid at every show, except the girl he picked up had a brother who was a local cop, and she said something to the cop brother, and it erupted from there. The local cops were going to throw the whole band into jail and hold them for trial, which would have meant six weeks in a rural former Slovac jail cell where few spoke English. He called us with his international cell and we managed to get the consulate to "Fix" the problem.
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from:http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f67/s...aid-fair-share-guarantee-925827/#post13330932
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