+1 We had drummer like that. His idea of practicing was listening to the song in his car on the way to rehearsal so he could try to fake it.
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If only I knew then what I know now...
- Thread starter bigcatJC
- Start date
+1 We had drummer like that. His idea of practicing was listening to the song in his car on the way to rehearsal so he could try to fake it.
This is another one I wish I knew when I was young. We were playing rock and thought everything had to be LOUD ALL THE TIME. Dynamics are a great thing to learn.
Perfectionism can be a big problem. Spending hours rehearsing a 3 minute song kills your progress. Some musicians tend to think that the audience listens to music at the same level of detail as you do. The majority of the audience listens to the melody and the words, and don't care about all of the subtle musical details that you may think are so important. It is counterproductive to spend hours trying to nail some subtle guitar lick buried beneath the vocal in the mix that no one in the audience knows is there.
"Practice what you don't know" is great advice if you have a lot of songs and not enough time to rehearse them all. I scan through the setlist mentally and see if I remember all of the parts of each song, and practice the ones I am unsure about.
Amazing amazing thread. Some seriously useful info in here.
So without reiterating too much, here's my thoughts.
1) Practice your set up and teardown and load out. Sounds silly but you need to know how fast you can do this and who is responsible for what. True every venue is different but once you know who's responsible for doing what, it makes set up really easy. Ok easier. We would all start with the drum kit cause our drummer had a huge kit. We'd bring it in and set it roughly in place while he tweeked it. After the kit was done he would help with the other stuff. Everyone in the band learned how to set up everyone elses rigs from scratch. Which pedals go where, everything.
2) This brings me to another point. Get organized! Have cases for everything. Organize your "extra cable bag". Those little velcro straps are really handy, and combined with color coding things, you can get the cables you need without having to fight with untangling the spaghetti monster.
3) Have an emergency kit of some kind. I had a leather duffle bag that had extra strings, straps, picks of various thicknesses, all kinds of batteries, a beat up boss distortion pedal and delay pedal, a roll of "gaffers tape", band-aids (pun?), extension cords, powerstrips, all of the guitar tools I could think of, you name it it was in there. We rarely needed it, but when we did we all said a prayer of thanks to whatever gods watch over gigging musicians.
4) Be cool with the other bands in your area because you'll never know when one of these bands could hook you up with a gig. Get to know who's out there. I have restrung guitars for bands that are on stage cause they had no one else to do it. I've even let a guy use one of my guitars while I did a quick fix on his during a song. I don't recommend the loaner thing but the plus side is they remembered us and got us a gig with them that we wouldn't have had other wise.
5) Scale your gear to the venue. If you're playing a small coffee shop gig DO NOT bring the 9 piece metal kit and the "Wall of Noise". I always tried to go to the location prior to the gig so that I could get a sense of how much space was available, what things they were supplying, what they weren't supplying, etc... This is a great time to talk with the manager if the place doesn't usually have live music and figure out placement of equipment verses traffic flow etc. If you have the luxury of a little time, going to the venue and getting this information a week or two in advance lets your scale back your gear if needed and go through your set with the new configuration of equipment. Which brings me to my next point:
6) FIGURE OUT WHERE THE PLACE IS BEFORE THE NIGHT OF THE GIG! Seems obvious, and I know its not always do-able but...
7) When designing your bands logo make sure its legible from more than 10 feet away. I love some crazy deathmetal shows but come on guys make a logo we can read. Maybe, just maybe somebody will like what they hear but they can't read the logo so you dont get the booking.
8) This seems obvious but I gotta say it: If you have any kind of merchandise bring it! It does no good sitting in grandmas basement. If you don't have a CD or T-shirts are out of the budget, grab your digital camera, snap some pics of the band, and get them printed. How many people have a photo printer at home these days? Even if the budget is tight spend the little extra cash, get the good glossy paper and print off 100 of them. It'll still be cheaper than shirts. Just make sure you have the band logo and some contact info in there somewhere. Have something for people to take home with them and remember you by.
9) Any documents or business cards need to be flat and clean. A business card pulled out of your pocket thats all crumpled up and covered in taco grease is not going to get you any work. At least none that pays. If you carry cards on you, as opposed to in your bass case, get one of those metal card holder things. Clean documentation (business contracts with the facility for example) is key to presenting yourself as a professional and reliable act.
Obviously we do this because we all love it, however you have to treat it like a business and present yourself and your act as a legitamate entity if you want to make any money at this. If you treat your commodity (the band) like a professional business, it is more likely that the club owner will as well.
So without reiterating too much, here's my thoughts.
1) Practice your set up and teardown and load out. Sounds silly but you need to know how fast you can do this and who is responsible for what. True every venue is different but once you know who's responsible for doing what, it makes set up really easy. Ok easier. We would all start with the drum kit cause our drummer had a huge kit. We'd bring it in and set it roughly in place while he tweeked it. After the kit was done he would help with the other stuff. Everyone in the band learned how to set up everyone elses rigs from scratch. Which pedals go where, everything.
2) This brings me to another point. Get organized! Have cases for everything. Organize your "extra cable bag". Those little velcro straps are really handy, and combined with color coding things, you can get the cables you need without having to fight with untangling the spaghetti monster.
3) Have an emergency kit of some kind. I had a leather duffle bag that had extra strings, straps, picks of various thicknesses, all kinds of batteries, a beat up boss distortion pedal and delay pedal, a roll of "gaffers tape", band-aids (pun?), extension cords, powerstrips, all of the guitar tools I could think of, you name it it was in there. We rarely needed it, but when we did we all said a prayer of thanks to whatever gods watch over gigging musicians.
4) Be cool with the other bands in your area because you'll never know when one of these bands could hook you up with a gig. Get to know who's out there. I have restrung guitars for bands that are on stage cause they had no one else to do it. I've even let a guy use one of my guitars while I did a quick fix on his during a song. I don't recommend the loaner thing but the plus side is they remembered us and got us a gig with them that we wouldn't have had other wise.
5) Scale your gear to the venue. If you're playing a small coffee shop gig DO NOT bring the 9 piece metal kit and the "Wall of Noise". I always tried to go to the location prior to the gig so that I could get a sense of how much space was available, what things they were supplying, what they weren't supplying, etc... This is a great time to talk with the manager if the place doesn't usually have live music and figure out placement of equipment verses traffic flow etc. If you have the luxury of a little time, going to the venue and getting this information a week or two in advance lets your scale back your gear if needed and go through your set with the new configuration of equipment. Which brings me to my next point:
6) FIGURE OUT WHERE THE PLACE IS BEFORE THE NIGHT OF THE GIG! Seems obvious, and I know its not always do-able but...
7) When designing your bands logo make sure its legible from more than 10 feet away. I love some crazy deathmetal shows but come on guys make a logo we can read. Maybe, just maybe somebody will like what they hear but they can't read the logo so you dont get the booking.
8) This seems obvious but I gotta say it: If you have any kind of merchandise bring it! It does no good sitting in grandmas basement. If you don't have a CD or T-shirts are out of the budget, grab your digital camera, snap some pics of the band, and get them printed. How many people have a photo printer at home these days? Even if the budget is tight spend the little extra cash, get the good glossy paper and print off 100 of them. It'll still be cheaper than shirts. Just make sure you have the band logo and some contact info in there somewhere. Have something for people to take home with them and remember you by.
9) Any documents or business cards need to be flat and clean. A business card pulled out of your pocket thats all crumpled up and covered in taco grease is not going to get you any work. At least none that pays. If you carry cards on you, as opposed to in your bass case, get one of those metal card holder things. Clean documentation (business contracts with the facility for example) is key to presenting yourself as a professional and reliable act.
Obviously we do this because we all love it, however you have to treat it like a business and present yourself and your act as a legitamate entity if you want to make any money at this. If you treat your commodity (the band) like a professional business, it is more likely that the club owner will as well.
Music is supposed to be fun........part of the fun is seeing just how good your band can become but still needs to be fun. 99.9% of us never become elite professional musicians so remember keep it fun and enjoy it.
Character of your bandmates matters much more than musicianship. Musicians always can learn to play better but jerks with characters flaws rarely improve. Some examples.....I used to be in a bands with a guitard that refused to get a day job or drivers license. Another guitard had a thing for underage girls and arrogant enough to hit on everyone else's girlfriends when you were out of the room. Another guitard and singer decided to shack up with each other and ruin two marriages. Another guitard with golden fingers refused to carry his own axe into the gig. This all happened long ago before I learned that charactor matters - I have had no issues once I started playing with nice people exclusively.
Everyone should have equal roles off stage to help contribute to the bands success. That does not mean that all bands members have to carry in the gear. Our female singer is a looker who sometimes likes to get dolled up for the gigs....leather mini skirt....high heels etc. It is much better for the band to have her out socializing with the audience before and after the gigs than loading up trucks. She is willing to help load gear but we have gotten more pub and future gigs with her working the room.
Be careful on performing to many free gigs.......once your band is good enough to get paid.......people will start taking advantage and it will get harder to get paying gigs.
Pay everyone equally
Character of your bandmates matters much more than musicianship. Musicians always can learn to play better but jerks with characters flaws rarely improve. Some examples.....I used to be in a bands with a guitard that refused to get a day job or drivers license. Another guitard had a thing for underage girls and arrogant enough to hit on everyone else's girlfriends when you were out of the room. Another guitard and singer decided to shack up with each other and ruin two marriages. Another guitard with golden fingers refused to carry his own axe into the gig. This all happened long ago before I learned that charactor matters - I have had no issues once I started playing with nice people exclusively.
Everyone should have equal roles off stage to help contribute to the bands success. That does not mean that all bands members have to carry in the gear. Our female singer is a looker who sometimes likes to get dolled up for the gigs....leather mini skirt....high heels etc. It is much better for the band to have her out socializing with the audience before and after the gigs than loading up trucks. She is willing to help load gear but we have gotten more pub and future gigs with her working the room.
Be careful on performing to many free gigs.......once your band is good enough to get paid.......people will start taking advantage and it will get harder to get paying gigs.
Pay everyone equally
Many of the most entertaining bands I ever saw were technically pretty poor. Audiences react to energy... The ebb and flow of energy. If your energy sucks, then they will think you suck. They feed off of your vibe. Even if you technically suck, but your energy is good, they will get off on it. The audience is like a mirror... You'll only see what you're putting in front of it. If you stand in front of them as someone who is totally insecure and praying they like you, they will eat you alive. If you're uncomfortable, then THEY will be uncomfortable. Nobody likes being uncomfortable. At least not for long. But even if you're not that great... If you don't care, they won't care... as long as you entertain them. If you have fun, they'll have fun.
Also... As a musician... Know when the hell to shut the F up. Except for some little trendy groupies that move through trends faster than underwear... No REAL music fan cares what your personal life is about. They don't care what your "crib" looks like... They don't care what goofy causes you're behind and how much you hate whale killers... They don't care what you think about the war... Shut the F up and just play. There's a reason why bands like Limp Bizkit go down in flames, and it's because guys like Fred Durst love hearing themselves talk and seeing themselves on TV, until everybody is so sick of them, they can't take it anymore. Or you get the people that think, just because they're a good musician, that automatically makes them a great politician. It does not. Ask the Dixie Chicks if they think it's a great idea to air ditzy political views in public. The smartest thing a band ever did was when Pearl Jam stopped making videos at the height of success... Genius. Maintain mystique. Keep people guessing. That mystery will keep people interested and coming back. People have heroes because they think their hero has a better life than they do... If you let them see you're just a regular J-O like them, they're history.
Also... As a musician... Know when the hell to shut the F up. Except for some little trendy groupies that move through trends faster than underwear... No REAL music fan cares what your personal life is about. They don't care what your "crib" looks like... They don't care what goofy causes you're behind and how much you hate whale killers... They don't care what you think about the war... Shut the F up and just play. There's a reason why bands like Limp Bizkit go down in flames, and it's because guys like Fred Durst love hearing themselves talk and seeing themselves on TV, until everybody is so sick of them, they can't take it anymore. Or you get the people that think, just because they're a good musician, that automatically makes them a great politician. It does not. Ask the Dixie Chicks if they think it's a great idea to air ditzy political views in public. The smartest thing a band ever did was when Pearl Jam stopped making videos at the height of success... Genius. Maintain mystique. Keep people guessing. That mystery will keep people interested and coming back. People have heroes because they think their hero has a better life than they do... If you let them see you're just a regular J-O like them, they're history.
I'd tell myself...
Don't buy Crate. No really, don't buy Crate.
Buy every late-70s Yamaha BB you can find.
The drummer makes the band. Don't struggle with a sub-par drummer because it won't be fun.
Make sure everyone in the band has the same goal in mind. Whether it's play shows at a local dive or aspire to be the next AC/DC, everyone has to have the same goal or it will fall apart.
Have sex with slutty girls after the show because chances are when you're 34 and basically married with kids you won't get that chance.
Don't waste time in cover bands. Write songs, find others who can write songs, and write more songs.
Don't buy Crate. No really, don't buy Crate.
Buy every late-70s Yamaha BB you can find.
The drummer makes the band. Don't struggle with a sub-par drummer because it won't be fun.
Make sure everyone in the band has the same goal in mind. Whether it's play shows at a local dive or aspire to be the next AC/DC, everyone has to have the same goal or it will fall apart.
Have sex with slutty girls after the show because chances are when you're 34 and basically married with kids you won't get that chance.
Don't waste time in cover bands. Write songs, find others who can write songs, and write more songs.
Everyone who is NOT Cliff Burton should just not be in Metallica. Look at Jason Newsted and Rob Trujilo in about 10 years.
Yes, yes and yes. Especially the slutty girls part. I passed a lot of a$$ because I had a "girlfriend" or I was chasing some other girl that happened to come see me play... Ugh, I usually ended up going home alone and pissed my guitard was getting what I passed up :scowl:
Drummers are wierdos for the most part. If you find one that's good and is a normal person... lock him in the basement. He's a rare find. Ours got arrested for "sexual crimes against nature", so that pretty much ended my first band.
I only tried one cover band and hated it. I don't really get off on playing someone else's creative product. I prefer to make my own music and thus fuel my own creative abilities. My .02
im the drummer in my band and i see myself as a bassist for the most part but each of my band mates are very different but were all great friends and with everybody's differences i see that we all come together and play what we like.
one thing i learned is that you will get along with friends better than anyone
one thing i learned is that you will get along with friends better than anyone
I'll add to the fun. I agree with a lot of what's been said, but here are some I definitely live by these days.
1. Be wary of bandmates in a relationship (married or dating).
As their relationship has ebbs and tides, so will your band along with it. Female singer pissy at guitarist boyfriend and decides not to come to rehearsal? Yeah, been there, done that.
2. Somewhat related to #1 - avoid drama.
Seems obvious, right? Wrong. When I want to play music with others, I just want to have a good time. Not walk into a room where you can cut the tension (for whatever reason) with a knife. Know when to bow out.
3. Sound guys don't care about your expensive equipment 99.9% of the time
You may have spent $$$$$ on your rig, but don't be surprised when he wants you to plug your bass into a DI. He'd (or she'd) probably be happier with you on an el-cheapo passive bass than some hot active one which may overload his board. Yes, they should be good enough to adjust, but let's face it - you're at their mercy.
4. Be courteous to other acts on a multi-bill.
So one night we were headlining and had an opening act. The band before us asked if they could do "just one more" ... which turned into five songs. We had to wind up cutting our set short and the worst part is they were so bad they drove a good portion of our audience out.
Similarly, someone in this thread said to practice set up and break down. Factor that into your set time. If you take too long on either, you may affect the amount of time others get to play ... even your own.
5. Your job is to put proverbial asses in seats.
Club owners want to make money via food, drink, and possibly admission. If you're driving business away by your bad set and horrible playing ability, chances are it will affect you.
6. Make sure your front person (read: vocalist) is actually a front person.
Your singer may have great pipes, but if another member is doing a majority of the talking and crowd interaction, you've got problems. That's not to say others can't chime in, but you need a single focal point.
7. Even if you get paid crap, make sure you get your share.
One night we did a gig. I had to go after because I needed to get up early. Next rehearsal I ask how much we made and where my cut was. They said they used it at the bar. Gee, thanks.
8. Keep an eye on your gear.
I've been lucky and never had a problem, but things can sprout legs. You may want to go party it up with your friends but make sure someone you trust is looking out for your gear while you are.
9. Gauge crowd reaction and adjust accordingly.
Setlists are wonderful. However, if you see the crowd start to get restless, be flexible enough to change it on the fly. You generally can't get a crowd back once you've lost them.
10. Don't blow megabucks on a demo.
In our ADD world, club owners and whoever is booking may only listen to a minute (or less) of your stuff. Make sure what you record is good (whether it's in a studio or in your space done live with some mics). Make sure it accurately represents how you sound, not some slick polished thing which sounds nothing like how you do live. It's like going on a date with someone from an online dating service, seeing the hot picture from when they were 25 and they show up as a haggard 40 year old.
Pick your very best (and strongest) songs, probably no more than 3. If possible, show some range.
11. Setlists ... can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
In every band there are songs that each member would rather not do if they had a choice. In a tribute band I was in, we constantly fought to keep the known songs in and not go all deep as to keep the casual folks. You can achieve balance, but you can't avoid playing a band's biggest song if you're in a tribute act. Don't let emotion cloud your judgement and screw you out of future gigs because you guys sound like Mike-FM with horrible flow and transitions.
12. Have a manifest.
We played one gig in Canada, and I insisted that everyone list their equipment that was going on the truck. It sped up the process at the border immensely. The last thing you want to do is have to open up every case and re-pack the van.
13. Don't be up everyone's butt 24/7.
I find I get along much better with people in a band if I'm not around them all the time. Have some "me" time so-to-speak.
14. In a studio setting, everyone shouldn't have equal say.
Some folks in your band (maybe you) have better ears than others. Everyone will want their stuff to be louder or have certain things tweaked. When you get to the mixing stage of a project, the fewer people involved, the better. Let everyone hear mixes which can then be tweaked.
Similarly, don't beat a dead horse. If something isn't working (such as getting down a solo), move on and come back. Or in my experience, I've found people nailed it early on and wanted "just one more take" and it was a law of diminishing returns. Since most stuff is digital, save what you feel are keeper takes. YOu may even be able to craft something good from multiple takes, but leaving that decision up to the person playing isn't always the best move.
1. Be wary of bandmates in a relationship (married or dating).
As their relationship has ebbs and tides, so will your band along with it. Female singer pissy at guitarist boyfriend and decides not to come to rehearsal? Yeah, been there, done that.
2. Somewhat related to #1 - avoid drama.
Seems obvious, right? Wrong. When I want to play music with others, I just want to have a good time. Not walk into a room where you can cut the tension (for whatever reason) with a knife. Know when to bow out.
3. Sound guys don't care about your expensive equipment 99.9% of the time
You may have spent $$$$$ on your rig, but don't be surprised when he wants you to plug your bass into a DI. He'd (or she'd) probably be happier with you on an el-cheapo passive bass than some hot active one which may overload his board. Yes, they should be good enough to adjust, but let's face it - you're at their mercy.
4. Be courteous to other acts on a multi-bill.
So one night we were headlining and had an opening act. The band before us asked if they could do "just one more" ... which turned into five songs. We had to wind up cutting our set short and the worst part is they were so bad they drove a good portion of our audience out.
Similarly, someone in this thread said to practice set up and break down. Factor that into your set time. If you take too long on either, you may affect the amount of time others get to play ... even your own.
5. Your job is to put proverbial asses in seats.
Club owners want to make money via food, drink, and possibly admission. If you're driving business away by your bad set and horrible playing ability, chances are it will affect you.
6. Make sure your front person (read: vocalist) is actually a front person.
Your singer may have great pipes, but if another member is doing a majority of the talking and crowd interaction, you've got problems. That's not to say others can't chime in, but you need a single focal point.
7. Even if you get paid crap, make sure you get your share.
One night we did a gig. I had to go after because I needed to get up early. Next rehearsal I ask how much we made and where my cut was. They said they used it at the bar. Gee, thanks.
8. Keep an eye on your gear.
I've been lucky and never had a problem, but things can sprout legs. You may want to go party it up with your friends but make sure someone you trust is looking out for your gear while you are.
9. Gauge crowd reaction and adjust accordingly.
Setlists are wonderful. However, if you see the crowd start to get restless, be flexible enough to change it on the fly. You generally can't get a crowd back once you've lost them.
10. Don't blow megabucks on a demo.
In our ADD world, club owners and whoever is booking may only listen to a minute (or less) of your stuff. Make sure what you record is good (whether it's in a studio or in your space done live with some mics). Make sure it accurately represents how you sound, not some slick polished thing which sounds nothing like how you do live. It's like going on a date with someone from an online dating service, seeing the hot picture from when they were 25 and they show up as a haggard 40 year old.
Pick your very best (and strongest) songs, probably no more than 3. If possible, show some range.
11. Setlists ... can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
In every band there are songs that each member would rather not do if they had a choice. In a tribute band I was in, we constantly fought to keep the known songs in and not go all deep as to keep the casual folks. You can achieve balance, but you can't avoid playing a band's biggest song if you're in a tribute act. Don't let emotion cloud your judgement and screw you out of future gigs because you guys sound like Mike-FM with horrible flow and transitions.
12. Have a manifest.
We played one gig in Canada, and I insisted that everyone list their equipment that was going on the truck. It sped up the process at the border immensely. The last thing you want to do is have to open up every case and re-pack the van.
13. Don't be up everyone's butt 24/7.
I find I get along much better with people in a band if I'm not around them all the time. Have some "me" time so-to-speak.
14. In a studio setting, everyone shouldn't have equal say.
Some folks in your band (maybe you) have better ears than others. Everyone will want their stuff to be louder or have certain things tweaked. When you get to the mixing stage of a project, the fewer people involved, the better. Let everyone hear mixes which can then be tweaked.
Similarly, don't beat a dead horse. If something isn't working (such as getting down a solo), move on and come back. Or in my experience, I've found people nailed it early on and wanted "just one more take" and it was a law of diminishing returns. Since most stuff is digital, save what you feel are keeper takes. YOu may even be able to craft something good from multiple takes, but leaving that decision up to the person playing isn't always the best move.
Hey I am not a bass player, I am a guitarist/vocalist and I just joined this forum because of browsing and finding this thread. There is a great amount of advice here and basically in the 20 + years I've been doing music I have experienced almost everything mentioned here.
Thanks
Thanks
These are two excellent points. I have seen some really good musicians who stand there stone-faced like they're really bored, and that projects into the crowd. If they think you're bored, so will they. The "shut the F up" rule is also a good one. Nothing kills the momentum of a show like someone in the band going off into a long dull story about something no one cares about. If you want a good example of this, listen to the Spin Doctors live album called "Homebelly Groove". It's a great show musically with some excellent funky bass playing, but the singer goes off on a bizarre tangent between songs talking about weird stuff ("hovering lime green mood with blue edges" and cartoon characters) and reading goofy poems. Shut up and play a song
