If speaker size does not affect tone, why do they exist?

[Flux Jetson]

EDIT: Title shoud read "If different speaker sizes don't affect tone, why do they exist?" Sorry.


I've been told here in this forum (more than once) that different speaker sizes have .. and I quote .. "Zero affect on bass tone". If that is true, then what is the point of offering them?

If true, why isn't there just a ten inch bass speaker, and use either more or less of them to suit the application? For smaller, lower powered amps you'd use only one. As loudness requirements go up, add power and more drivers to move more air. Different manufacturers could still build "their type" to offer variety. Tens seem to suit slappers well enough as they have low enough mass to respond all super quick, and with enough of them they are plenty loud enough for rockers. And if desired they can be slowed down enough to "soften" the attack a little through amplification circuit-type changes. So it seems to me that if there are no tonal differences, there is no need for anything other than the time proven ten inch.

If the idea that different size speakers offer "no" tonal differences is valid, what's the point of manufacturing them?

Personally, I'm having a tough time buying the idea that speaker size has no affect on bass tone. However I could be wrong, I'm wrong about things all the time.

Thanks.

 

[f.c.geil]

It's marketing hype. Offer different sizes so the consumer thinks they have choices. Market them as having different capabilities, and the consumer will think he hears those differences.

 

[4StringDave]

I think that marketing is the answer here. People believe that a certain speaker will sound a certain way, so the manufacturers need to offer a selection to meet demand.

 

[Lawkeeper]

The only difference I'm interested in the size. Bigger speakers, more awesomeness

 

[PlungerModerno]

I think there's two main questions / areas of discussion:

A: as Alex from barefaced put it here: Invalid Link Removed

"Tens don't have a sound. Nor do twelves. Nor do fifteens. You don't need to have tens to get the top and a fifteen on the bottom to get bottom. The only thing you can say for sure about the size of a speaker is that it'll tell you how big it looks! That's it.

So are you saying that every speaker sounds the same?
Absolutely not. Every speaker sounds unique. But you can't predict the sound based on its size - there are numerous other factors which have a greater effect on the tone and performance."

B: Specialist applications... like the mid drivers and tweeters you see on umteen PA, monitor - and specialist bass rigs, like fEARfuls, BFM (Bill FitzMaurice) and PJB (Phil Jones Bass) cabs (check out some of the crazy 8 threads..).

I agree that drivers cone area has a huge part to play in the loudspeakers performance. But the old rules have changed. light (Neo) 15" cones can be punchy, and 5" drivers can go counterintuitively low.
I don't know that well - I'm not an expert... just summarizing what I gleaned from the internets. YMMV.

EDIT: A big thing mentioned on the barfeced site, and Greenboy isn't shy about it either... is acoustic problems with arrays of small cones.... like the 4X10... check out http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm and Invalid Link Removed

SEEMS LEGIT!

 

[Bass SA]

This is what I understand:
The small the cone of the speaker, the fastest it can move, so there for the highest the frequency or pitch that it can reproduce and vice versa.
The speaker will not modify the tone per se, now different speaker will reproduce some part of the frequency spectrum better than others (size of the cone) so all depends on what you want for your tone.
So, if you want more middle in your tone, is better to use some midrange speaker, like 10” or 8”, if you want lower, better to use 15” or 12” or a combination.

 

[f.c.geil]

Bass SA, this is completely incorrect. Larger speakers require more power to move quickly, but can react just as quickly as small ones, and can reproduce frequencies just as high (and at a higher volume).

 

[Downunderwonder]

Is this an acid test?

Some much more informed answers will come by dawn.

Big speakers move more air. Old big speakers couldn't keep up with power demands so multiple 10's became the standard despite crummy dispersion. Big speakers need smaller speakers crossing over to cover full range as well as small speakers and some.

No one cab suits everyone.

No such thing as a fast speaker, they are all moving forward and back at the same rate, 100hz is 100hz only after 1 iteration, lasting 1/100th of a second whatever the speaker, followed up by the rest of the note, die myth DIE!

 

[PlungerModerno]

This is what I understand:
The small the cone of the speaker, the fastest it can move, so there for the highest the frequency or pitch that it can reproduce and vice versa.
The speaker will not modify the tone per se, now different speaker will reproduce some part of the frequency spectrum better than others (size of the cone) so all depends on what you want for your tone.
So, if you want more middle in your tone, is better to use some midrange speaker, like 10” or 8”, if you want lower, better to use 15” or 12” or a combination.

As far as I know, this is right - but a major factor I'll re-emphasize is dispersion. A 21" speaker may be able to go high (maybe up to 4 KHz) but It will beam like a mofo. All PA and other cabs using crossovers use this fact to bring Hi Fi sound to rooms the world over. I see, at every major gig I've been to, vertical stacks of PA cabs. they could have been 215's, with the drivers aligned horizontally, but I've only seen them sold as 115's with mids and tweeters... my knowledge is not extensive but my sources claim to be experts. They agree for the most part that varying driver sizes push the limits of speaker technology (try getting a 2" cone to go PA loud at 40Hz)!

*EDIT: Not trying to go back on what I said, (I admitted to not being an expert so no ego to defend), but I think I should rephrase what I said . . . I agreed with Bass SA's post - as a general rule i.e. smaller cones are typically rated for higher frequencies at volume, speakers shouldn't heavily modify tone, and that for good off the shelf lows a 15" or 12" speaker will be a better bet than an 8" one. Just generalities, I'm no expert. Some designs prove the rules have changed in recent decades!

 

[Downunderwonder]

No, still alive, dangnabbitt.

 

[Bass SA]

Bass SA, this is completely incorrect. Larger speakers require more power to move quickly, but can react just as quickly as small ones, and can reproduce frequencies just as high (and at a higher volume).

I don't think so, the biggest the cone more air resistance, so you will get to the point that more power will not move the cone faster.
the speed of the cone is not in function of the power.

 

[landau roof]

The "tone" of a speaker is a result of its design. You can build a 15" mid or a 4" sub.

All else equal, the larger the cone, the more efficient the driver will be and the larger enclosure it will require to reach the same alignment, and the lower in the bandwith the dispersion will narrow. Cone diameter is another element that a cabinet designer can use to reach size and output goals.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I don't think so, the biggest the cone more air resistance, so you will get to the point that more power will not move the cone faster.
the speed of the cone is not in function of the power.

Frequency is frequency. Tone is a mix of various harmonics of the main frequency being reproduced in different proportions.

Frequency does not have a speed. It's a frequency. The speaker is either capable of a frequency or it isn't, there is no speed.

 

[Ben Noblit]

This is what I understand:
The small the cone of the speaker, the fastest it can move, so there for the highest the frequency or pitch that it can reproduce and vice versa.
The speaker will not modify the tone per se, now different speaker will reproduce some part of the frequency spectrum better than others (size of the cone) so all depends on what you want for your tone.
So, if you want more middle in your tone, is better to use some midrange speaker, like 10” or 8”, if you want lower, better to use 15” or 12” or a combination.

I'm sorry, but this is completely false. Different drivers of course sound different, but this has nothing to do with how large they are. The larger the driver, the more it will "beam" highs, though, which is why you use small speakers for high freqs.

 

[Bass SA]

Frequency is frequency. Tone is a mix of various harmonics of the main frequency being reproduced in different proportions.

Frequency does not have a speed. It's a frequency. The speaker is either capable of a frequency or it isn't, there is no speed.

frequency will translate in speed of movement of the cone, we are talking about the fundamental and not the harmonics.

 

[Downunderwonder]

So what? Read what I posted originally again, and again for however long it takes to sink in. A frequency does not have a speed.

 

[Bass SA]

I think we need to call Sheldon may be he know

 

[pie_man_25]

The speaker is either capable of a frequency or it isn't, there is no speed.

do or do not, there is only try

no but seriously, speaker size isn't as much of a factor in tone nearly as much as speaker design.

 

[Ben Noblit]

frequency will translate in speed of movement of the cone, we are talking about the fundamental and not the harmonics.

Exactly. "Frequency" just means how frequently the driver is vibrating. If one driver is moving more frequently than another, i:e: "faster," it is reproducing a different fundamental frequency. Otherwise known as the building block of a different note.

If speakers worked like you are saying, every time we played an open E through a different speaker, we'd get a slightly different note each time. Which would be completely ridiculous.

 

[BLDavis]

Too early for popcorn.......Think I'll go make some waffles.