• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

If Squier was Fender

WoodyG3

WoodyG3

May 6, 2003
6,647
268
68
Colorado, USA
www.toucantrackclub.net
#1
With all the enthusiasm for the newer Squiers, and now some discontent with the higher prices from Fender, it got me to thinking. What if Fender stopped labeling their Indonesian and Chinese basses Squier and put Fender on the headstock? They would be MII and MIC Fenders. Would they sell better and be more generally accepted?

I think they would. I think there are a lot of people who won't by a Squier just because of what it says on the headstock. If the same bass, at the same price, had a Fender logo on the headstock, I think more people would go for it.

For example, I think Skylines and Tributes sell better with Lakland and G&L on the headstock than if it were given some other name.

Opinions?
 
#2
Unfortunately, you are right. The Squier name is a gear snob turnoff. Then agian, if they made them MII or MIC Fenders the price would probably go up. And the gear snobs still wouldn't buy them, so no gain for Fender. Good point though. And as for Laklands, my skyline has Lakland on the headstock and bridge, with the little skyline picture and label. I think they are respected more compared to USAs then Squiers are compared to Fenders, esp. MIAs. Not that I agree, but I think that is generally true.
 
#7
IMHO, the problem is that Squier's USED TO BE relatively dung-heap compared to even MIM's. Their reputation was kinda besmirched because of that. Now they are making significantly better products, but it will take a while for their reputation to recover. I have no idea how long this will take - maybe forever? Back in the 60's Sony televisions were regarded as relatively low-end stuff in comparison to the "good" brands like RCA, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Emerson, etc. The last I checked Sony was considered to be boutique stuff and Sylvania and Emerson are "shadow" brands being OEM'd by Funai.
 
#9
Well, if it were known to the public that the Squires were absorbed entirely by Fender, then the general concesus would be that all lower end Fenders are now bad, IMHO.

I'm studying Marketing right now, and yes, this is a topic is highly interesting.
 
#10
Well ... I don't think so. They might sell better, but they'd still be the same inconsistent and unreliable crap. I'm no bass snob, but I thought I wanted a Squire VM Fretless Jazz. I've played no fewer than six over the weekend, and every one of them had a neck made of limp pasta. Fender is wise to keep their "good" name off the bottom of the line unless it deserves it. Right now, even Fender must know that it does not.

I'll probably pop for the new MIM fretless jazz bass instead.
 
#11
Ultimately, the way I see it, the only people who really suffer are gear snobs.

My guitar player shelled out £2100 Sterling for a Gibson Les Paul Custom when the Epiphone Les Paul Standard hanging next to it was in way better shape, played better, sounded better and even had a gorgeous flame plustop.

He even told me he liked playing the Epi better, but spent £1850 more on the Gibson because he wanted a Gibson.

It helps that he's an awesome guitarist, but he would be an awesome guitarist on a £150 Squier strat.

As it is I'm shaping up to buy a Squier, because all the ones I've tested have been really good.
 
#12
I would argue that, rather than Fender dragging up the reputation of the old Squiers, the change would bring down the reputation of Fender. If MIM Fenders didn't exist, I bet Fender instruments would have the same prestige level as Gibson instruments. Since they have a middle range line, though, I think Fender comes off to the general populace as a versatile, working-man's guitar. If Gibson swallowed mid-range Epiphone guitars and called them Gibsons, they'd likely get the same reputation. Along the same lines, adopting the lower-end line would dilute the quality of the brand, independent of the actual quality of the instruments.


...or I could just be blowing smoke.
 
#13
I'd rather buy one of the nicer Squiers instead of a MIM (except for the roadworns). It's unfortunate that people will turn down a good instrument for a name. I'll admit that I've done the same in the past though.

I just recently bought a Squier CV 60s Jazz and a Fender FSR hot rod jazz. I brought the Squier to rehearsal one week and the Fender the next and no one new the difference. With the quality of the new Squier stuff it's quite easy to fool the untrained eye (and ear).
 
#14
WoodyG3 said:
With all the enthusiasm for the newer Squiers, and now some discontent with the higher prices from Fender, it got me to thinking. What if Fender stopped labeling their Indonesian and Chinese basses Squier and put Fender on the headstock? They would be MII and MIC Fenders. Would they sell better and be more generally accepted?

I think they would. I think there are a lot of people who won't by a Squier just because of what it says on the headstock. If the same bass, at the same price, had a Fender logo on the headstock, I think more people would go for it.

For example, I think Skylines and Tributes sell better with Lakland and G&L on the headstock than if it were given some other name.

Opinions?
Click to expand...

I agree that there are people who would buy a given bass if the headstock said Fender rather than Squier. But how many people out there don't already know that Squier is owned by Fender?

That said, I don't think giving all the instruments Fender decals devalues the brand. The brand is already known to have many lines.
 
#15
gonzilla said:
I would argue that, rather than Fender dragging up the reputation of the old Squiers, the change would bring down the reputation of Fender. If MIM Fenders didn't exist, I bet Fender instruments would have the same prestige level as Gibson instruments. Since they have a middle range line, though, I think Fender comes off to the general populace as a versatile, working-man's guitar. If Gibson swallowed mid-range Epiphone guitars and called them Gibsons, they'd likely get the same reputation. Along the same lines, adopting the lower-end line would dilute the quality of the brand, independent of the actual quality of the instruments.


...or I could just be blowing smoke.
Click to expand...

In the 60s, when I started buying them, Fenders were not considered an expensive instrument--relatively. They were considered a working-man's axe and treated accordingly. The big controversy was the "post-CBS" Fenders from circa ''66 onward; these were held in much lower regard than the present day MIMs, and justifiably so. I had a 68 P-Bass that was a piece of crap, thought it would be worth a fortune now.
 
#16
funkbass88 said:
I'd rather buy one of the nicer Squiers instead of a MIM (except for the roadworns). It's unfortunate that people will turn down a good instrument for a name. I'll admit that I've done the same in the past though.

I just recently bought a Squier CV 60s Jazz and a Fender FSR hot rod jazz. I brought the Squier to rehearsal one week and the Fender the next and no one new the difference. With the quality of the new Squier stuff it's quite easy to fool the untrained eye (and ear).
Click to expand...

I'm relatively new to being a fan of Fender (hated Strats and Teles for the longest time, yet won over by a $275 MIM Jazz), but I can tell you that the feeling is mutual for Gibson regarding the Epiphone Elitist vs Gibson Studio lines.
 
#17
baalroo said:
Absolutely guarantee they'd sell better. People buy fender because of the headstock logo. You could put "Fender" on a First Act guitar and quadruple the price.
Click to expand...

I'd bet that happens right now on the bay.....usually with the words "rare" and "vintage" in the title.....








:hiding:



To the point of this thread, I don't see why Fender would do this. And I'd bet they sell far more squiers than most folks would like to admit.

If they Fender did eliminate the Squier name, can you imagine the howl that would come up round here? I can hear it now...........
 
#18
If anything Fender has tried to associate the Squier brand with the Fender name more in recent years. Here is my proof. My 1999 Squier Standard Series P-Bass Special says "by Fender" in simply sans-serif letters under the Squier logo on the headstock. My new Squier Standard Series Telecaster has the Fender logo in black under the Squier logo on the front of the headstock, while on the back it says "Designed and backed by Fender" where "Fender" is again the black Fender logo.

P2030002.png
P2030003.png
P2030004.png
P2030005.png
 
#19
The Squier VM Jazz I tried out today had the same front and back fender logo as opposed to the old plain one shown on your P-Bass

Also on some of the Fender Basses I was looking at today the "Made in Mexico" had been dropped with nothing in place of it and the american ones said USA under them.

I don't know what age they were, some are older models, definitely Mexican the ones without anything under them.

A guy I work with told me he bought a guitar package years ago but never learnt to play, and he said he thinks it's a fender, but its definitely a squier. That's coming from somebody who isn't interested in instruments and never really wants to bother learning to play one, and he remembered it as a Fender, so theres easily no way Joe Public can really tell the difference apart from the price.

It's good that squiers have started to get a better reputation (and the quality has definitely improved, I expected the Squier VM Jazz I tried today to suck but it was very good for the price just like most of the reviews said!)
 
#20
One of my friends seems to think that there is a major difference between my Squier and his MIM. My bass actually sounds better, but no matter how much I tell them that you're only paying a couple hundred more for a logo, he seems to think that Fender wouldn't do that to people. We also have the exact same arguments about Epiphone and Gibson
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back