I'm Cheap!

[Robear22]

I think the argument over bass and price point is always interesting.

In 1979, when I purchased my first SB-600 Aria Pro II and my Hondo Longhorn, both together cost me less then a new P Bass and way less then a new Ric. The P Bass in both quality and sound was WAY WORSE then either or the two Japanese basses. As I've said in other threads and on other forums, the Japanese were trying to eliminate the MIJ as crap impression, and the Matsumoku factory turned out what we all would call high end today. That was a calculated move, and Ariia didn't make tons of money, as they sold them to flood the market and raise reputation, which in the long run actually worked. For a while.

Today you cannot say the same. MIC is often nearly identical to anything immediately post WWII from Japan. Now, in the past two years quality for those instruments is way up, but still not what other countries, Japan, Korea, Czechoslovakia are making.

Having said that, you can find extremely giggable and recordable basses in the cheaper import lines. A lot of that has to do with actual bass design and attention by the company to QC after they arrive in the US. Often times the instruments come straight from the factory to a warehouse and then dealer without any US human interaction. That is why you occasionally see threads here that a new bass came in with a dead pickup, or that the necks are bad, or that nuts are too high, yada yada. That isn't to say its a bad thing, just an explanation of how it goes.

In my 30 years what I have found is that the higher the price point, the more options you get, more versatility in sound you get, and overall more comfort. My Brute has killer giggability, and several sound guys have told me they like doing the sound from it through the DI. It records nicely as well.

My old custom Sadowsky, which, sadly, I no longer have, I could dial in a ton of live tones, and it gave me some interesting choices when recording. Did that make it better then say my Brute? Not in every situation.

They real key is what is YOUR sound. Will Lee gets paid huge money to sound like every bassist on the planet, so he uses and owns a range of instruments depending on the gig. He has a Ric and Hofner for his Fab Faux gigs, plays his signature Sadowsky on the Letterman Show, drags a whole lot into the studio with him.

Contrast that with say Pino Paladino. He has A signature sound. Just listen to "Every Time You Gp Away" by Paul Young. That is the Pino sound. He needs three things to get that sound. 1) A fretless fingerboard, 2) a P pickup config and 3) an amp or preamp that he can mold the tone a bit. So, in a pinch, Pino can walk into any shop and pick up say a Squier VM P bass with a fretless board, plug it into his rig, and he can get Pino sound out of it. Will he get Jaco sound out of it? Probably not.

Cost and value of bass only matter in the long run if you plan on selling them for a profit. If you have a bass you are never going to sell, then it doesn't matter. Lee Sklar has his old, supermodified Yamaha that to this day he still uses regularly. Does he care that back when he first got it it was a cheapo bass by standards? No. Did it do for him what he wanted? You bet!

For me, since I'm getting late in my career, I want to thin the herd and not have so many basses for fewer projects, so having a boutique or custom in my collection solves versatility. Now I only need about three to five basses to cover all my needs, instead of the dozen or so I needed previously.

If there was a like button I would click it now!!!!!!

 

[bassphreak]

No offense to Carvin but if I were in the market for an SB I'd be patient and look at used ones. The drop in resale value is pretty eye-opening. A friend of mine recently loaded one to the hilt, changed his mind after a few weeks and sold it for about 1/3 what he paid for it. Yes, people do stuff like that and if you're really bent on spending the money on a bass, this might be a smart way to do it. Heck, there was also a Marleaux six string in the classified for under a grand.

For an amp there is currently a flat out ridiculous deal at Hello Music in the Hot Deals forum for new Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 amps. I just ordered one, along with a guitar polishing kit for $425 delivered. Not sure how many they have left. That is not a typo.


No, I didn't need it, far from it. But it's a flat out ridiculous deal IMO. Pair that with a $200 used cab and you have a rig that will take you anywhere. For relative peanuts.

I agree on the Carvin comment. I would wait patiently for a nice used SB. I had one for a while. I picked mine up used and loved it. But like most other higher end basses, I end up selling or trading it away. All my basses now are mid range basses and I am very happy with. I agree with doc....I like my $300-$400 basses (used prices). they sound great to me, and I don't worry about them when playing out.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I think the argument over bass and price point is always interesting.

In 1979, when I purchased my first SB-600 Aria Pro II and my Hondo Longhorn, both together cost me less then a new P Bass and way less then a new Ric. The P Bass in both quality and sound was WAY WORSE then either or the two Japanese basses. As I've said in other threads and on other forums, the Japanese were trying to eliminate the MIJ as crap impression, and the Matsumoku factory turned out what we all would call high end today. That was a calculated move, and Ariia didn't make tons of money, as they sold them to flood the market and raise reputation, which in the long run actually worked. For a while.

Today you cannot say the same. MIC is often nearly identical to anything immediately post WWII from Japan. Now, in the past two years quality for those instruments is way up, but still not what other countries, Japan, Korea, Czechoslovakia are making.

Having said that, you can find extremely giggable and recordable basses in the cheaper import lines. A lot of that has to do with actual bass design and attention by the company to QC after they arrive in the US. Often times the instruments come straight from the factory to a warehouse and then dealer without any US human interaction. That is why you occasionally see threads here that a new bass came in with a dead pickup, or that the necks are bad, or that nuts are too high, yada yada. That isn't to say its a bad thing, just an explanation of how it goes.

In my 30 years what I have found is that the higher the price point, the more options you get, more versatility in sound you get, and overall more comfort. My Brute has killer giggability, and several sound guys have told me they like doing the sound from it through the DI. It records nicely as well.

My old custom Sadowsky, which, sadly, I no longer have, I could dial in a ton of live tones, and it gave me some interesting choices when recording. Did that make it better then say my Brute? Not in every situation.

They real key is what is YOUR sound. Will Lee gets paid huge money to sound like every bassist on the planet, so he uses and owns a range of instruments depending on the gig. He has a Ric and Hofner for his Fab Faux gigs, plays his signature Sadowsky on the Letterman Show, drags a whole lot into the studio with him.

Contrast that with say Pino Paladino. He has A signature sound. Just listen to "Every Time You Gp Away" by Paul Young. That is the Pino sound. He needs three things to get that sound. 1) A fretless fingerboard, 2) a P pickup config and 3) an amp or preamp that he can mold the tone a bit. So, in a pinch, Pino can walk into any shop and pick up say a Squier VM P bass with a fretless board, plug it into his rig, and he can get Pino sound out of it. Will he get Jaco sound out of it? Probably not.

Cost and value of bass only matter in the long run if you plan on selling them for a profit. If you have a bass you are never going to sell, then it doesn't matter. Lee Sklar has his old, supermodified Yamaha that to this day he still uses regularly. Does he care that back when he first got it it was a cheapo bass by standards? No. Did it do for him what he wanted? You bet!

For me, since I'm getting late in my career, I want to thin the herd and not have so many basses for fewer projects, so having a boutique or custom in my collection solves versatility. Now I only need about three to five basses to cover all my needs, instead of the dozen or so I needed previously.

This is a wonderful, common sense post, and something that I will always try to remember. On my way to work, I was just thinking about how a part of me just loves high end basses simply because they are high end, not because they necessarily sound better for what I do. Even though many of us will never admit it, there is a certain pride in being able to post pictures of your cool bass on TB, or to show it off at a GTG to the dozen or so folks you know who actually understand how cool your new wonderbass is!

Also on the way to work I thought about how I am just getting older, and I simply feel it time to show I have actually learned something over the years. As I said in my first post, I would find much more substance in enhancing my savings or diversifying my portfolio than another new bass or amp could ever give me. Scrimping on everything for an ultra cool bass is something for a young man, or at least a single man. I am neither.

At this point in my life, I simply need two five strings for my work at church and a nice amp for home or services away from my home church since my current amp is about to become my permanent church amp. Although a part of me would really enjoy something extravagant, I truly do not need something boutique or even high end to get my sound.

BTW TRichardsbass, I have to point out that Pino was using a Stingray during his fretless days.

 

[bassphreak]

Unless I see something special, I will just put my money in my pocket (bank account.) I guess my departed parents would be shocked that for once, I plan to not let money burn a hole in my pocket!

I'm still trying to learn that. I'm frugal though.

 

[Andy_D]

Doc,

If I were you I would have my short list of potential candidates and patiently scour away at the classifieds, here, CL, EB, etc... and wait for a steal. Pounce on one when you find it and you can always re-sell if it's not to you liking. This is what I have done and if you look at my signature I have less than $2500 invested in all of those basses. I'm trying to thin the herd a little before I buy some more. I am sucker for those deals that too cheap not to buy on something that I'm interested in. I would like to sell about 1/2 of my present basses and I'm interested like you in a Brubaker Brute and a G&L L2000. 10 basses is a few few too many, 5-7 good basses I could live with quite well. My no sell list at this point would probably be My Cirrus, BTB, ATK, and Fury. GAS is fun addiction and I usually buy cheap enough that I can always break even or better if I have to sell. Aside from the initial investment it amounts to no cost test drives.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No offense to your friend, but used SBs are generally going for 70-80% of original retail, so he was pretty silly to sell for 1/3.



Hey, Dr. Cheese, I'd get a nice amp. Best money spent, IMO.

I know he was. He wanted it to sell fast. Not exactly uncommon. My main point was that I've seen this several times since the introduction of the SB's... taking more than a $500 hit on a relatively new bass. In some cases a lot more. And someone like Dr. Cheese could be the beneficiary of that deep depreciation.

So I guess I've just seen a bunch of anomalies... no offense.


Seriously.. a bunch. I've checked the specs against what Carvin is charging and I've been genuinely surprised at how little some folks are reselling them.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Investing money in bass gear is mostly like throwing money in the ocean.

Tell that to my $2500 Fodera Anthony Jackson.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Tell that to my $2500 Fodera Anthony Jackson.

That makes me think of something you said years ago: a deal is only good if you have the money. You were in a position to take the plunge and you got the benefit.

 

[Brad Johnson]

That makes me think of something you said years ago: a deal is only good if you have the money. You were in a position to take the plunge and you got the benefit.

Absolutely... it's always better to have a cushion and reserves.

Just passed a nice little test today. A friend of a friend called for help in finding a bass. A short search turned up a bass that was more than he could've hoped for, sold for more than $2500 new, was in new condition and was selling for $700.

That is a classic "free money" bass IMO but I told him about it anyway and helped him close the deal.

I'm such a nice guy. Of course if he had decided not to buy it...

*pounce*


For just a $700 investment...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Absolutely... it's always better to have a cushion and reserves.

Just passed a nice little test today. A friend of a friend called for help in finding a bass. A short search turned up a bass that was more than he could've hoped for, sold for more than $2500 new, was in new condition and was selling for $700.

That is a classic "free money" bass IMO but I told him about it anyway and helped him close the deal.

I'm such a nice guy. Of course if he had decided not to buy it...

*pounce*


For just a $700 investment...

Brad, I always appreciate your opinion. I know that whatever I do, I will see to it that I keep a strict budget and put a big portion of this money away.

If I have learned one thing as an adult, it is that money always looks like it is more than it is until you actually start spending it!

 

[jim777]

The Carvin BB75 I have on a stand next to my amp has withstood competition from an SR5006e, a Smith limited BSRG6EG, and a bunch of others (all returned to store or owner). I would like another Skyline JO5 or DJ5, but I think I may just stick with (used) Carvins going forward. If I were to buy a new one it would only be for the triple step moss green finish with blackburst edges, not really anything else!

 

[Dr. Cheese]

The Carvin BB75 I have on a stand next to my amp has withstood competition from an SR5006e, a Smith limited BSRG6EG, and a bunch of others (all returned to store or owner). I would like another Skyline JO5 or DJ5, but I think I may just stick with (used) Carvins going forward. If I were to buy a new one it would only be for the triple step moss green finish with blackburst edges, not really anything else!

Who knows what will be available when my refund comes in, so I would not rule out buying a nice used Carvin. Otherwise, I think given what they cost, a new Carvin is a good purchase, especially if I intend to keep it a long time, and I have certainly slowed down on the musical basses routine. As I said before, getting a really nice bass made with the little touches that I would like is also a really nice bonus too.When I look at an SB5000, I can get one exactly like I want for $1,058 and a ten week wait or I can get a B50 for $893. No one else comes close in combining price and quality for new instruments.

I have my eye on some other basses too, in particular certain Ibanezes, but I am going to actually try not to think so much about it because it is making me daydream too much!

 

[pacojas]

Serious business, I need to PM with you for some pointers!

i'm sort of an experienced novice, hence the small cash investments periodically. i tend to use any spare cash i can afford to gamble with. i also look for stocks that have been beaten down by the economy, but have good balance sheets. every now and then you can reap alittle extra cash for those GAS attacks!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Brad, I always appreciate your opinion. I know that whatever I do, I will see to it that I keep a strict budget and put a big portion of this money away.

If I have learned one thing as an adult, it is that money always looks like it is more than it is until you actually start spending it!

It is truly amazing how fast it can be here and then gone. I never forget the feeling of it being gone... keeps me in check.


You know enough about the market at this point to make moves similar to what I do. You can find a ridiculous deal, get a chance to check something out that you might not have prior, pass it on at a great price and have something to go towards a keeper... or a bill. In short order you can have purchases that end up paying for what you want and in my case, ultimately end up with free gear. Free is pretty nice.


As long as you don't let emotions cloud your judgment, of course.

 

[WoodyG3]

I know he was. He wanted it to sell fast. Not exactly uncommon. My main point was that I've seen this several times since the introduction of the SB's... taking more than a $500 hit on a relatively new bass. In some cases a lot more. And someone like Dr. Cheese could be the beneficiary of that deep depreciation.

So I guess I've just seen a bunch of anomalies... no offense.


Seriously.. a bunch. I've checked the specs against what Carvin is charging and I've been genuinely surprised at how little some folks are reselling them.

Yeah, there will be people looking for a quick sale, and I agree that's a great way to get a lot of bass for a little money. No offense taken at all, Brad.

Another factor to consider is that since Carvin basses are so customizable, people sometimes need a low price on a used one to convince them to buy that over the "dream bass" they can order direct.

Still, I've seen most used SBs go much more than other Carvin models.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, there will be people looking for a quick sale, and I agree that's a great way to get a lot of bass for a little money. No offense taken at all, Brad.

Another factor to consider is that since Carvin basses are so customizable, people sometimes need a low price on a used one to convince them to buy that over the "dream bass" they can order direct.

Still, I've seen most used SBs go much more than other Carvin models.

Cool.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

As if anyone cares, my final decision is to order a Carvin B50. This is the one bass that I can buy without coming close to breaking my budget that totally has everything I would like in bass since I can order it to my specifications.

 

[plankspanker13]

All that matters is that you are happy. Having the stable that I do lets me change up that variety, at a whim, and that can be a wonderful cure for GAS. I brought the 'wick out for an acoustic trio gig over the weekend, because I felt like it, and got some compliments.

I've managed, through a lot of gigging, the past few years, to really find "my" sound(s). I have some Entwistlian grit, Jamersonian rump, and a few shades in-between, all via a few VT Bass Deluxe presets, and the tone controls of the instruments (as well as the bridge pickup volume knob on the J's). I'm from the look-good-feel-good; feel-good-play-good school, play-good-sound-good school, but it seems like "sound good" is now earlier in that chain than it used to be.

 

[abstractart06]

I had no idea what G.A.S. was till I started checking out talkbass. I used to wonder why some guys had so many instruments. Then I realized that each instrument has a certain feel, tone or look that you relate to.

If I had the resources I would probably own a high end bass. Luckily I seem to find great deals that suit my taste also.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Absolutely... it's always better to have a cushion and reserves.

Just passed a nice little test today. A friend of a friend called for help in finding a bass. A short search turned up a bass that was more than he could've hoped for, sold for more than $2500 new, was in new condition and was selling for $700.

That is a classic "free money" bass IMO but I told him about it anyway and helped him close the deal.

I'm such a nice guy. Of course if he had decided not to buy it...

*pounce*


For just a $700 investment...

Update: The friend of a friend aka "my new best friend" just called. The bass arrived early and it was fun hearing a grown man giggle with glee over unexectedly finding his dream bass... for peanuts. Felt good to help him get there.