I'm so lost...

[Richard Lindsey]

"Now be honest, was that really improv?"

I haven't heard this song in years, and I don't think I've ever tried to play it. I played this after just a few passes through it to get the progression. I don't even own a copy. I had to download it last night.

This is what knowing some theory and the key can do!

Actually, Sitting on the Dock of the Bay is not the best song to pick for illustrating the theory of chords in a key. Mainly because all the chords are major--every single one, no minors. So the whole thing about which triads you use over which degrees of the scale breaks down.

 

[goodtimejonny]

My teacher created a class at my high school that I'm in called Jazz Techniques. All it is, is theory, and we play out of fake books. I'm quite greatful that I'm able to learn all this in high school, so that I'm already a little ahead by the time I get to college.

 

[Arizona Jones]

"Mainly because all the chords are major"

How does that work?

 

[Richard Lindsey]

"Mainly because all the chords are major"

How does that work?

Not quite sure what you mean ... that's just how the song goes. G major, B major, C major, A major, repeat (I'm leaving out the passing chords for simplicity, but they're all major too), G major, E major, G major, E major, G major, A major, G major, E major. Bridge, G major, D major, C major, repeat twice, F major, D major.

What I'm saying is, if you want to illustrate the set of chords normally associated with a key, there will typically be a pattern of major and minor and diminished. That doesn't help you with this tune, because all the chords are major.

 

[Arizona Jones]

"Dock of the Bay is in G major, but only loosely. Redding was by no means a great guitar player and found the chord progression by just tooling around on his guitar."

Great! Well, I stepped in a pile there! Why did I have to pick a song written by a singer! Let that be a lesson to all of you!

Back to the drawing board!

;^)

 

[Arizona Jones]

"Not quite sure what you mean"

Well, I thought I had a handle on this theory stuff. And along comes Dock of the Bay, which is a very good sounding song, and just blows that all out of the water.

Waaaa...

 

[Arizona Jones]

"What I'm saying is, if you want to illustrate the set of chords normally associated with a key, there will typically be a pattern of major and minor and diminished. That doesn't help you with this tune, because all the chords are major."

Point taken. I guess my ears aren't good enough to pick up that they were playing all Major chords. That, or I was so tuned into the bass that I just didn't hear. I know I'm probably wrong, but playing that minor stuff behind those chords sounded pretty good to me

The piss poor MP3 copy of the song I had didn't help matters.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Ye_olde_dragon]

No worries, man. We're getting there, and you're still way ahead of me. Now on to the real question....Was I right?

I mean aside from that fact that the song itself deviates from the key of G....which really means...ummm...I don't know anymore. I thought I had a handle on keys too.

 

[Arizona Jones]

"A, B, and E are the ii, iii, and vi"

Yes, I think this is right.

"G C D are the iv, v, and vii, the major"

G C D would be I, IV, V and the 7th degree, I don't know if it's caps or lower case, is the diminished. Which we really haven't gotten into.

I think! I'm not sure of anything anymore! Don't listen to me!

Run away!

;^)

 

[Arizona Jones]

"I thought I had a handle on keys too."

Well, this was a good lesson. You hear it over, and over again that none of this stuff is set in stone.

 

[Ye_olde_dragon]

"A, B, and E are the ii, iii, and vi"

Yes, I think this is right.

"G C D are the iv, v, and vii, the major"

G C D would be I, IV, V and the 7th degree, I don't know if it's caps or lower case, is the diminished. Which we really haven't gotten into.

I think! I'm not sure of anything anymore! Don't listen to me!

Run away!

;^)

Damn, you're right about the capitalization, and of course that the root, not the 7. I can be pretty stupid at times.

But we're doing well. We're learning. We just learned that Dock of the bay is not a standard song. I think there was some discussion of that on the last page.

And I didn't ask "Duuuuuhh, what's a key??" this time either, so that's a plus.

 

[Arizona Jones]

Hey, I'm gonna shut it down. I've got this Betty Blowtorch video from the Netflix that I want to checkout. All this theory stuff has me pretty wiped out. I'll check in tomorrow.

 

[Arizona Jones]

Found this in another thread. A straight to the point breakdown of the basics.

Originally posted by MarkTAW

>

You don't write a song in "The key of C" without it being major or minor (or some other variation). You write it in "The key of C Major" or "The Key of C Minor." Major is happier, minor is sadder. (In general, about 98% of the time.)

Chords are made up of "triads" of three notes. A triad starts at a note & then skips every other note. A "C major chord" is C, E, G. Notice how you skipped D and F.

You could also say this "root third and fifth" for the first, third, and fifth note in the key or scale.

Whether a chord (or a key) is major or minor depends on where the 3rd falls (and to a lesser extent the 6th & 7th). The chord either has a major third or a minor third. (or augmented or diminished, but let's ignore than for now).

If you were to play C major triad would look (on a bass) like this:

G x-----
D --2--5
A 3-----
E x-----

A C minor triad:

G x-----
D --1-5-
A 3-----
E x-----

Note that the minor third is simply one fret lower than the major third.

Now, you can build a chord starting from each note in the scale simply by starting at that note and building a triad - every other note.

1 C E G
2 D F A
3 E G B

etc.

If you do this, you'll find that 1, 4 and 5 (as someone mentioned) are major, and all the rest are minor.

 

[ryco]

Well, I thought I had a handle on this theory stuff. And along comes Dock of the Bay, which is a very good sounding song, and just blows that all out of the water..

"Oh well - that's rock 'n roll!" lol

 

[dlloyd]

Found this in another thread. A straight to the point breakdown of the basics.

Originally posted by MarkTAW

>

You don't write a song in "The key of C" without it being major or minor (or some other variation). You write it in "The key of C Major" or "The Key of C Minor." Major is happier, minor is sadder. (In general, about 98% of the time.)

Chords are made up of "triads" of three notes.

This is true only of simple chords. Extended chords such as sevenths have four or more chord tones.

A triad starts at a note & then skips every other note.

Again, only true of specific types of triad. Suspended triads can be made up of root, second and fifth or root, fourth and fifth.

Whether a chord (or a key) is major or minor depends on where the 3rd falls (and to a lesser extent the 6th & 7th).

What we refer to as major and minor chords depends only on the third (augmented and diminished chords can be considered special types of major and minor chords, respectively).

Add a major sixth to a minor triad, as you would have on the ii chord, and you have a m6 chord. Add a minor sixth to a minor triad, as on the vi, and you have a mb6 chord.

Add a minor seventh to a minor triad, as you'd have on the ii, iii and vi chords, and you get a m7 chord. Add a major seventh to a minor triad, as you'd get on the i chord when harmonizing the harmonic or melodic minor scales, and you get a m-maj7 chord, which despite the maj7 is still a minor chord.