IMO, neck dive on expensive guitars is absolutely inexcusable

[InhumanResource]

The Thumb has a short upper horn, so depending on your playing position, the bass may want to hang at an angle that's no what you prefer. That is a *design* issue, not a *quality* issue. If a bass doesn't have a design that suits you, don't buy it, but don't complain about the "quality".

I had a broadnecked Thumb 6 that I liked quite a bit and never had a problem with neck dive, but I also play with the bass fairly high (which helps my left hand with wide necks, but also puts the weight of your right arm onto the body), and had Dunlop strap locks (which extend the position of the strap and a bit). But if you play with the bass lower and want it to hang at a 45-degree angle, you probably wouldn't have liked it.

Nailed it! Use a decent strap and don't hang the thing down by your nads. Neckdive resolved. Never had this issue on any instrument.

 

[SoulReflection]

To everyone who's suggesting a strap as a solution to neck dive - don't.

First off, when a strap holds your guitar in place by friction, it's completely different to the situation where your guitar is held in balance at the strap button alone. It feels completely different and it's a compromise you shouldn't have to make on an almost 2000 euro instrument. Hell, I don't have to make that compromise on any of my own instruments, even my ultra lightweight spector performer which I paid less than 200 euros for.

You aren't supposed to solve a problem that shouldn't exist in first place. If you get your guitar chipped, you aren't supposed to "solve" it by fixing the finish yourself, you send it back.

Second, it's more important to have a properly functional instrument than top tier woods and hardware, because even cheap fender-style hardware functions properly, even cheaper woods will do the job, but a design that's inherently flawed will actually affect playability big time. This is why I am flabbergasted at a design that has great woods, electronics and hardware, yet requires the user to make compromises due to a design flaw this stupid.

BTW, my mate first tried the bass with his nylon strap he had lying around (that's the situation in which headstock just straight up dropped to the ground which was amusing and terrible at the same time), because he always uses it to check basses initially, and even when he used his 3.5" leather strap, neck dive was still present (just not as bad with a nylon strap).

I would never buy an expensive bass without trying it out first. Apparently, neck dive is the least important consideration to bass manufacturers and I can now understand why.

Over the past few weeks, I have posted my neck dive problems on TB. Granted mine involves a new Fender Mustang PJ (relatively inexpensive). But, to the 20 and 30 year old members, it appears that I should just "suck it up", go to the gym, use my fretting hand or picking hand/arm on the body to compensate, or get a thick strap and quit whining. Since this group represents the major market for them, it is understandable.

At 69 years old, I know what I was able to do in the past and what I can do now.

I would love to be around in 30 to 40 years to hear them complain about how arthritis and other physical, age related conditions are affecting their ability to play and deal with neck dive.

I consider myself fortunate in that I can afford to buy light weight tuners, heavier bridges, etc. in order to continue playing. And yes, I am a GOF .

 

[wmhill]

Yeah I got stung with a neck diving Warwick NT thumb (four string). In my defense, it was in the early 90's when reviews and research were not an easy thing to pull off. I liked the tone and the feel, but the neck dive and the crazy weight was enough for me to move on from it. I was kind of miffed about these issues considering the hefty price tag. I've never looked at that brand again, but I doubt my lack of financial support for their product made any difference to their bottom line. And while we are on the subject, I wasn't impressed with the cheap a$$ gig bag that came with that $3K bass....

 

[Element Zero]

Dude, it has NOTHING to do with the quality of the craftsmanship. It has EVERYTHING to do with it’s design. It’s not wrong. You friend just doesn’t like the way it sits on him. Stop talking about Warwick’s manufacturing as flawed because it’s not. My Pedulla has a similar issue because the upper horn stops at about the 14th fret which causes the bass to be shifted in the direction of the headstock. It’s a design preference. Forced me to slightly alter my play style. Your friend doesn’t want to change his approach? He doesn’t have to as it’s obvious it’s not the bass for him.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I am discussing this as though there are improperly designed high end basses, because someone who designed them didn't take some very simple precautions.

And yes, I'd expect a bass with a higher price to have basically everything better, not to be worse in any aspect compared to instruments costing 10x less.

I mean absolutely no offense... I think you expect too much.

There is no perfect design for everyone. I have no idea how any of my basses would hang if I wore them like Fieldy... because I don't wear my basses like that.

I had a suede lined strap that I used to use and it turned out that a couple of vintage basses had neck dive that went completely unnoticed because of my strap.

I expect whatever bass I'm holding to do what it does. Beyond that I don't have any hard standards like you. If a bass strikes me as cool I might put up with an issue or consider a remedy. You seem to haved ruled out remedies and want the bass to be what it isn't. That's a tough hill to climb.

Funny thing... I really couldn't care less for Warwick in general and as such spend practically no thought on them. But I understand that many folks love them and I'm cool with that. Not trying to throw water on your rant, ultimately what's the point? You and your mate don't like neck dive? Cool. You think it's a design error? Not enough of one for their thousands of often repeat customers.

 

[BioWeapon]

He bought a wide neck 6-string(!) bass and is shocked it has neck-dive? How on earth are you supposed to make a 6-string bass without any neck-dive, not to mention a wide neck one? That wide neck with 6 tuners and strings will of course have a lot of weight to it, compared to a Squier. You must have a huge, massive, heavy body or add weights to it to counteract that... And then people would complain about the bass being too heavy

I'm building a fretless 8, not octaves.... it doesn't neck dive. I can balance it by the bass side horn.

The issue is that you have to make balance a big part of the design and it changes your aesthetics radically! Warwick was going for a look and neck dive is the consequence.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I know a lot of people who miss a lot of cool stuff because of their "rules". I don't really get it but then again I don't have to.

 

[snake23]

The body on a Thumb is smaller than most other basses which has alot to do with the neck dive. I changed to light weight tuners and a wide stap and it's much better. I just love the tone and playability so I'm willing to deal with the neck dive.

 

[Altitude]

I also play with the bass fairly high (which helps my left hand with wide necks, but also puts the weight of your right arm onto the body)

Ah, me too. This explains why I've never understood what people mean by "neck dive" or why it would be a problem.

 

[Manticore]

He bought a wide neck 6-string(!) bass and is shocked it has neck-dive? How on earth are you supposed to make a 6-string bass without any neck-dive, not to mention a wide neck one? That wide neck with 6 tuners and strings will of course have a lot of weight to it, compared to a Squier. You must have a huge, massive, heavy body or add weights to it to counteract that... And then people would complain about the bass being too heavy

Neither of my wide-neck Alembic Elan six-strings basses neck dive. In fact, they balance perfectly making them about as comfortable to play as one could hope.

 

[Fender_Bender]

If the upper horn, if there is one in the first place, doesn’t extend to the vicinity of the 12th fret you have a strong recipe for disaster. Adding lighter tuners or a hanging weight from the bottom button are the unfortunate solutions.

 

[InternetAlias]

If the upper horn, if there is one in the first place, doesn’t extend to the vicinity of the 12th fret you have a strong recipe for disaster. Adding lighter tuners or a hanging weight from the bottom button are the unfortunate solutions.

How come nobody is putting strap buttons to the side of the neck, though? It always struck me as a logical solution, but there are probably some downsides to this.

 

[Fender_Bender]

How come nobody is putting strap buttons to the side of the neck, though? It always struck me as a logical solution, but there are probably some downsides to this.

Aside from being in the way physically (at least for some people) there is not a lot of material for the screw to go into because of the existence of the truss rod running down the middle of the neck. I personally would never design a bass without a horn, or some sort of telescoping strap retainer, that didn’t reach far enough forward to ensure reasonable balance.

 

[easyj]

Neck dive really sucks. I’m not sure how anybody thinks it’s ok to design and sell a bass with that problem. It’s something you should consider not tolerating with your instrument.

 

[James Collins]

What is Andy Irvine doing to alleviate the neck dive on this Thumb? I cannot tell.

 

[InternetAlias]

What is Andy Irvine doing to alleviate the neck dive on this Thumb? I cannot tell.

Holding the neck like a baseball bat. Not an option for anyone with a more classical grip on the neck. He does seem to have a good strap though, so that's probably helping.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

What is Andy Irvine doing to alleviate the neck dive on this Thumb? I cannot tell.

Gripping the neck like a baseball bat? (Not the way I play).

 

[DeliriumTremens]

Saw this on the bench once when I worked at GC lol. I mention this because someone mentioned attaching the strap button to the neck

 

[InternetAlias]

Saw this on the bench once when I worked at GC lol. I mention this because someone mentioned attaching the strap button to the neck View attachment 3058031

Oh damn that one looks really freaking dumb - not only would it block a thumb moving around the neck, that guitar in particular also has a pretty hefty horn to boot. What I meant by attaching it to the neck is attaching it to the side of the neck, where fret markers are.

 

[Mikey F]

Neck dive is kind of subjective I suppose. I am 6 ft 3 260, and I have never experienced neck dive. 2 Thumbs and plenty of heavy Warwicks along the way and no problems. I have owned a lot of basses. My current Thumb is heavy as crap but it is perfect for me. Everyone likes different things. Every bass fits different people. Play what makes you happy. Play whatever you want.