IMO, neck dive on expensive guitars is absolutely inexcusable

[bucephylus]

So you got some centuries old wood on the bass you crafted, it has pickups hand wound by fairies, hardware precision cast by the best blacksmith in the universe, as well as blessings from several dieties deities... only to have it neck dive.

My mate ordered a Warwick thumb BO6 from thomann and when it got here it looked great, he strapped it aaaand... headstock wanted to go to China to visit its aunt. This wasn't slight neck dive that you'd see on slightly lighter bodied P and J basses. No, this was EB0 levels of neck dive right there on a 1900e instrument.

He just returned the instrument.

I told him if he liked it enough he could just use the extended screw to make the guitar balance better, but he told me that if his 150e squier doesn't have this issue nor require a workaround like that, then sure as hell his 1900e warwick shouldn't, either.

While I happen to have the same preference that you have expressed, and wouldn’t purchase a high end bass that had ergonomic issues for me; at the same time we all have different physical characteristics. One player’s neck dive is another player’s baby. I’ve seen it. The balance and ergonomic characteristics are on the purchaser or commissioner of the instrument; NOT the builder. I wouldn’t begin to second guess some other plaer’s prefs. Mine are NOT universal truths. Information. Know what you are purchasing.

For those reasons, I voted “yes” on your poll

 

[4SG]

Neck dive really sucks. I’m not sure how anybody thinks it’s ok to design and sell a bass with that problem. It’s something you should consider not tolerating with your instrument.

Exactly. Folks at home: bring a strap to the music shop and test drive new basses standing up, unless you only play in a seated position.

 

[MEKer]

For me, neck dive negates everything else about a bass---in a bad way. I can have everything else WITHOUT the neck dive, so no toleration of it here for any bass...expensive or cheap.

 

[InternetAlias]

One player’s neck dive is another player’s baby.

I can agree with this, however physics don't ask who plays the bass, neck dive sourced from bad instrument balance at the top strap button is something that can be objectively evaluated. Quite easily, in fact.

If you are supporting the bass in other ways (strapping bellow the belt, using your left hand to hold it, pressing it down with your right hand, using friction), it still has a design flaw causing it to have neck dive if you can hang it by the strap button and it dives.

So while "whether the instrument dives" varies on a player to player basis (playing the same instrument), "whether the instrument is properly balanced" doesn't. It's just physics, plain and simple. The best way to solve this problem is to not have a problem in first place, that is, to have an instrument that's designed to be balanced.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Oh damn that one looks really freaking dumb - not only would it block a thumb moving around the neck, that guitar in particular also has a pretty hefty horn to boot. What I meant by attaching it to the neck is attaching it to the side of the neck, where fret markers are.

Why not add a hootenanny button to the headstock?

 

[InternetAlias]

Why not add a hootenanny button to the headstock?

That's a pretty damn good question as well, actually, it never occurred to me.

 

[40Hz]

Maybe your friend should try a Gibson Thunderbird next?

At least with Gibson you can jump on the bandwagon and join the crowd that loves to dump on them.

A TBird or EB-3L has neck dive? Unforgivable! Outrageous! They should be tarred and feathered!

but…

A $4000 bass with neck dive? Or a Thumb. Well… that’s an entirely different thing. You gotta take everything else you get from a bass of that caliber into consideration before you pass judgement on it. And neck dive? It’s really no big deal y’know?

Gotta love that ol’ double standard.

 

[fakeneckplate'65]

My biggest gripe with the Rickenbacker 4003, which no one seems to talk about, is that it would neck-dive significantly. I used a THICC 4" leather Italia strap & it made no difference. Two different instruments & they both were afflicted. Sucked..

 

[InternetAlias]

At least with Ginsin you can join in on thr bandwagon that loves fumo on them.

A TBird or EB-3L has neck dive? Unforgivable! Outrageous! They should be tarred and feathered!

but…

A $4000 bass with neck dive? Or a Thumb. Well… that’s an entirely different thing. You gotta take everything else you get from a bass of that caliber into consideration before you pass judgement on it. And neck dive? It’s really no big deal y’know?

Gotta love that ol’ double standard.

Well, I guess in this case you can at least give me some credit for having no double standards on this, I consider all neck dive to be awful and unacceptable to me, whether it's a gibson, fender, Warwick, or some of the brands I actually love and play.

The thing is, neither my $100 SX nor my $200 spector have neck dive. I am just spoiled by playing basses which are intonated properly and have no neck dive, hence why I won't own a bass with a telecaster-style bridge (intonation problems, and can't be bothered with compensated saddles or a bridge swap) or neck dive (when there are instruments without neck dive).

 

[tbplayer59]

It's only a QC issue if there's an acceptable "neck dive" spec.

Not all do, some balance well, some are meh, and some headstock dive, but this one was particularly bad. I'ts a QC error at this point, a guitar with a defect this serious should not leave the factory.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

neck dive on expensive guitars is absolutely inexcusable

It's an even bigger problem on bass guitars, due to the longer neck.
Some models I just shake my head to think that they continue getting made & getting sold.

If the top strap button doesn't come close to the 12th fret, I won't even look at it.

 

[tbplayer59]

You can tell by the design of the Thumb bass that it's going to neck dive. If the upper horn doesn't extend to at least the twelfth fret it's probably going to dive. It's simple physics.

 

[InternetAlias]

It's an even bigger problem on bass guitars, due to the longer neck.
Some models I just shake my head to think that they continue getting made & getting sold.

If the top strap button doesn't come close to the 12th fret, I won't even look at it.

There's a way to get around this - have the bridge away from the butt end of the bass and make sure the body is actually pretty heavy. As far as I know, this is how alembics balance despite having small horns (though some have even complained that not all balance well).

It's only a QC issue if there's an acceptable "neck dive" spec.

That's an issue onto itself - if they don't even test for neck dive, I find even that questionable.

You can tell by the design of the Thumb bass that it's going to neck dive. If the upper horn doesn't extend to at least the twelfth fret it's probably going to dive. It's simple physics.

You can tell the same thing from the design of an alembic, and you'd probably be mistaken. In most cases at least.

 

[40Hz]

Well, I guess in this case you can at least give me some credit for having no double standards on this, I consider all neck dive to be awful and unacceptable to me, whether it's a gibson, fender, Warwick, or some of the brands I actually love and play.

The thing is, neither my $100 SX nor my $200 spector have neck dive. I am just spoiled by playing basses which are intonated properly and have no neck dive, hence why I won't own a bass with a telecaster-style bridge (intonation problems, and can't be bothered with compensated saddles or a bridge swap) or neck dive (when there are instruments without neck dive).

Fair enough. I’m more the tone driven type. If a bass has the specific sound I’m looking for, I’m willing to put up with a lot sometimes. And while I prefer a balanced instrument, etc. etc. just like the rest of us, some neck dive or extra weight isn’t ever going to be an automatic dealbreaker for me. I try not to put too many conditions in front of me when I’m shopping for an instrument.

That said the bulk of what I own does balance nicely, feel comfortable to play, and sound good.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

There's a way to get around this - have the bridge away from the butt end of the bass and make sure the body is actually pretty heavy.

I'd rather have a lightweight bass with a long horn.

 

[Kmonk]

The thing most players don't realize is that neck dive can be the result of how you wear your bass. I have been playing since 1978. Basses have included Fender, Musicman, Spector, G & L, Washburn, Ibanez, and Alembic. I have never had a problem with weight or neck dive.

 

[InternetAlias]

The thing most players don't realize is that neck dive can be the result of how you wear your bass.

While that's true, if the guitar is fundamentally imbalanced, it will dive more and chances are it will dive more than one wants. I hold my guitars almost vertically, so I have ridiculously high standards for what I'd consider a well balanced instrument. For people who want the guitars just to stay horizontally and not drop the headstock to the ground, a slightly imbalanced guitar is going to do just fine.

 

[MattZilla]

I know there's folks here who're sick of the car analogies, but a thumb bass with any number of strings is as much of a (legal document caps, not yelling caps) BASS GUITAR as this thing above is a vehicle for commuting to and from work. Sure, it can be done. Sure, they sound and look pretty fricken cool to some folks. Sure, there are a few out there that might be comfortable, but most aren't. The same can be said of SG/EBs.

A little research would've shown your friend that when buying a Thumb, a six, and especially a Thumb six, s/he needs to also budget in a long road trip to try a bunch of them out with a slippery nylon strap. Srsly, the same can be said for Fenders, Ibanezes, and Rics. Heck, the only basses I would think that the inertvebings might let one think can be bought online and actually play nice (that phrase does not exclusively refer to having properly leveled frets) are Carl Tompsons, Ritters, and Sires.

I think that the sticky strap brigade have some pretty low standards of what is and acceptable, and I'm totally aware that 1) that sentiment makes me seem like a prissy snob 2) if everyone's standards were as high as mine, the scrap rate would be huge for the manufacturers thus causing cost to the consumer to easily triple. Imagine a $650 Squier and a $6000 for a plain Jane jetglo Ric 4003s.

IMO, even $300 is too much for a diving bass. That said, there is a Thumb five in town that probably dives which I very much would like to have for messing around with at home.

 

[jpTron]

Typical shoddy German engineering. I wonder if that's the reason Warwick resale value is so low compared to other basses.

 

[Fat Freddy]

This thing goes down like Greg Louganis....

However....It's a wonderful thing........Love it!!!...