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Ok, sounds like it's time to bring in the big guns.
Do you have a pre-amp, or access to one you can borrow, to insert into the signal chain for testing? It does not have to be a (double) bass-targeted pre-amp, but it does need to be able to be plugged in, and at least close to impedance matched.
Not that technically by specs it should fix this, but it sounds like that may turn out to be the easiest -- fix-all -- missing link in the test chain.
The impedance matching transformer was that missing link for me because it does more than just impedance matching, but it may not work similarly in your case. Also, a contact with the PJ people might answer these questions for you too -- we'd of course be interested in their responses.
Do you have a pre-amp, or access to one you can borrow, to insert into the signal chain for testing? It does not have to be a (double) bass-targeted pre-amp, but it does need to be able to be plugged in, and at least close to impedance matched.
Not that technically by specs it should fix this, but it sounds like that may turn out to be the easiest -- fix-all -- missing link in the test chain.
The impedance matching transformer was that missing link for me because it does more than just impedance matching, but it may not work similarly in your case. Also, a contact with the PJ people might answer these questions for you too -- we'd of course be interested in their responses.
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Just reading again your post: Indeed I did not use a passive bass guitar , but an acoustic bass guitar, with a preamp on bord...
What kind of Acoustic Bass Guitar? Many of those instruments with onboard preamps, with piezo pickups, already have a impedance buffer built in!
So that instrument would be louder than your realists
So that instrument would be louder than your realists
)
Just reading again your post: Indeed I did not use a passive bass guitar , but an acoustic bass guitar, with a preamp on bord...
No worries, I was just giving you that info for comparison.
If the PJ amp works with an active bass, it should also work with the Realist plugged into an active mixer.
You said the Realist was producing a signal in a mixer, but the mixer was not driving the PJ amp either. If it is an active mixer it will serve as a buffer, so the input impedance of the PJ amp has no effect on the pickup. If the pickup sounds good in the mixer, the mixer should be able to drive the amp...but you said the amp was also silent with the mixer. Did you ever hook up headphones to see what the bass sounds like in the mixer?
Finally received an answer by PJB:
In brief they just say that this model is used as practice or studio amp by double bass players and suggest me to use an external preamp...
(P.S. Never heard a double bass player practicing or studying with an amp anyway...
)
In brief they just say that this model is used as practice or studio amp by double bass players and suggest me to use an external preamp...
(P.S. Never heard a double bass player practicing or studying with an amp anyway...
)
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Finally received an answer by PJB:
In brief they just say that this model is used as practice or studio amp by double bass players and suggest me to use an external preamp...
(P.S. Never heard a double bass player practicing or studying with an amp anyway...
Very true, although I have done it from time to time to check out amplifiers and speakers right before a particularly important concert. So all you need is a pre amp.
I have to say that Phil Jones Bass has a tendency to over rate their smaller amplifiers. Just my opinion though.
Since I sold some years ago my D-Tar, do you have any suggestions about mini portable preamp? Shatten mini 2?
Thanks to all for yoyr help and comments on this thread.
Thanks to all for yoyr help and comments on this thread.
Did you ever try the mixer with headphones to see how the bass sounds? Unless it is a passive mixer, it should drive the PJB just fine. If I understand, you said the amp is not working with the mixer either, but the mixer is getting a signal from the bass. This suggests a problem with either the PJB or the cable. Before you drop cash on a preamp, I suggest figuring out what the problem is.
Here are some pedal format options that should work well.
MXR M81 2.2Meg input impedance. It works with a 9V battery or an optional wall wart. It has a DI output and, bass, treble and one sweepable mid control.
MXR® BASS PREAMP
The Empress ParaEQ 1Meg input impedance. Three Semi-Parametric tone controls with switches to select wide, medium, and narrow bandwidth. No DI output on this one and it runs on walmart only, which I don't believe is included.
ParaEq
Tech 21 Q Strip 4.7Meg input impedance. Bass, Treble and two sweepable mid controls. Work on 9V batter or optional walwart. Also has a DI out and fixed 45hz HPF and 3khz LPF that can be switched on and off.
Invalid Link Removed
The MXR is the least expensive.
The ParaEQ and Q Strip have different strengths.
I am sure @Ric Vice will make some more suggestions.
Finally I found time to make some other tests...
Used again the little mixer. Unfortunately I can not use the headphones: I have them but just with a "micro jack", you know those ones for smartphone... unusable in the mixer.
1. I mounted my clip-on microphone on the double bass, plugged in the mixer and put the signal in the PJB. It sounds ok! Good volume and nice sound quality.
2. Tried again with the realist: plugged in the mixer and then to PJB. The signal of the realist was low... but present.
So, I turned to maximum all the gain and volume potentiometers and a big, horrible growing noises exit by the amp... But, the sounds of the bass too! It was there, mixed with the noise. Unusable of course.
So now the main trouble
:
-sending back the amp since I really would like to have something "plug and play".
-finding a final solution, spending some extra money and let my daughter use it with her bass, just to practice. (Sounds really nice on her bass guitar anyway, and it's a pretty amp, really)
Used again the little mixer. Unfortunately I can not use the headphones: I have them but just with a "micro jack", you know those ones for smartphone... unusable in the mixer.
1. I mounted my clip-on microphone on the double bass, plugged in the mixer and put the signal in the PJB. It sounds ok! Good volume and nice sound quality.
2. Tried again with the realist: plugged in the mixer and then to PJB. The signal of the realist was low... but present.
So, I turned to maximum all the gain and volume potentiometers and a big, horrible growing noises exit by the amp... But, the sounds of the bass too! It was there, mixed with the noise. Unusable of course.
So now the main trouble
:-sending back the amp since I really would like to have something "plug and play".
-finding a final solution, spending some extra money and let my daughter use it with her bass, just to practice. (Sounds really nice on her bass guitar anyway, and it's a pretty amp, really)
Finally I found time to make some other tests...
Used again the little mixer. Unfortunately I can not use the headphones: I have them but just with a "micro jack", you know those ones for smartphone... unusable in the mixer.
1. I mounted my clip-on microphone on the double bass, plugged in the mixer and put the signal in the PJB. It sounds ok! Good volume and nice sound quality.
2. Tried again with the realist: plugged in the mixer and then to PJB. The signal of the realist was low... but present.
So, I turned to maximum all the gain and volume potentiometers and a big, horrible growing noises exit by the amp... But, the sounds of the bass too! It was there, mixed with the noise. Unusable of course.
So now the main trouble
-sending back the amp since I really would like to have something "plug and play".
-finding a final solution, spending some extra money and let my daughter use it with her bass, just to practice. (Sounds really nice on her bass guitar anyway, and it's a pretty amp, really)
It is likely the input impedance of the mixer is too low for the Realist as well. The results of your test seem to confirm this. So a preamp or buffer of some sort should work if you want to keep the PJB.
But I agree getting an amp that is plug and play without having to carry extra gear is probably a better solution.
The listed input impedance for the Trace Elliot ELF is 10Meg and I believe they are supposed to start shipping 8" and 10" combos in April.
Trace Elliot
A HPFpre is cheap and should do the job. And you get a high pass (low cut) filter too.
If it were me, I'd save the shipping and give the amp to my son who plays the BG bass and can use it....
So now the main trouble
-sending back the amp since I really would like to have something "plug and play".
-finding a final solution, spending some extra money and let my daughter use it with her bass, just to practice. (Sounds really nice on her bass guitar anyway, and it's a pretty amp, really)
And then I'd find an amp that works for me. And if I didn't want to also buy a pre-amp, I'd test my preferred pickup and amp combination somewhere before I purchased it.
(Disclosure: I recently purchased and installed a DB-mounted mic that I didn't test before purchase. I had an amp impedance related surprise, and was very lucky that all I needed was an impedance matching transformer.)
I've not used the Model B, but I used an old single channel Fishman ProEQ II with a Vic's bridge wing piezo, and it worked very nicely. That said, the Vic's piezo worked reasonably well with my amp without a pre-amp.
I have one of the Model B Preamps, it's fine and has Volume, Bass, and Treble Controls. Unfortunately, it doesn't feature a HPF or Phase Reverse like the later Pro Platinum and Platinum Pro's that are available now.
There's a second version that has slider controls vs mine with three knobs.
There's a second version that has slider controls vs mine with three knobs.
I have never used these Fishman units but seem to recall hearing somewhere that the inputs are 10 MOhm?
Might mean they should improve piezo sound?
They certainly do with most amplifiers, unfortunately the Phil Jones M-7 is a 50 watt amplifier, with one 7" speaker, and a 500 K Ohm input impedance. Surely, the Fishman BII can improve the
sound, but the M-7 is little more than a electric bass practice amp. I think the OP has decided to return it, or get something a little larger.
The Realist will work just fine with most decent amplifiers like the PJB Suitcase, and the PJB Flight Case. even the Double Four.
sound, but the M-7 is little more than a electric bass practice amp. I think the OP has decided to return it, or get something a little larger.
The Realist will work just fine with most decent amplifiers like the PJB Suitcase, and the PJB Flight Case. even the Double Four.
