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Improvising over maj7 chords

#61
tubatodd said:
Glad we are in agreement. Please look at the notes I listed. The G# makes it A major 7
Click to expand...

You got the notes right. But, since it is AMaj7 (not A7) it is not "secondary dominant of D."

There's no context to suggest the AMaj7 is functioning as anything other than IV. From the OP's perspective of doing well on the exam, I think it would be a mistake to set up the listener's ear to expect D as the target.

(As a sidebar, even if it were A7 instead of AMaj7, that doesn't, necessarily and in and of itself, assume V of D. An example of what I mean would be 12-bar blues in E, where A7 is the IV chord, not a secondary dominant.)
 
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#62
There's a lot of theory getting discussed here that, to me, is more applicable if you soloing over jazz changes. From a practical perspective, there is no way that playing an A shouldn't work over an AMaj7 chord. In most situations, and particularly in country music, your job is to play an A on the downbeat. It's that simple. If the
A doesn't sound right, then either the chart doesn't match the track, or it's out of tune, or you're out of tune. The melody note makes no difference to what you're doing. You're there to spell out the harmony, and more specifically, you're there to establish the lower end of the harmony – the roots and fifths.
 
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#63
akukulich said:
The melody note makes no difference to what you're doing.
Click to expand...

Yes.

Mushroo said:
There's no context to suggest the AMaj7 is functioning as anything other than IV.
Click to expand...

I "suspect" that the Amaj7 (diatonic) chord, used in that exercise , is more or less, a "passing chord" to B, in order to "make a chord progression more harmonically interesting.

They last for a very short period of time (1/4 or 1/2 a bar). You never sit on them for long, they are passing chords, you pass by them quickly."

There is nothing new about that chord progression in the exercise.
It's (in E major) I - V - ii - vii.
 
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#66
Whousedtoplay said:
Yes.



I "suspect" that the Amaj7 (diatonic) chord, used in that exercise , is more or less, a "passing chord" to B, in order to "make a chord progression more harmonically interesting.

They last for a very short period of time (1/4 or 1/2 a bar). You never sit on them for long, they are passing chords, you pass by them quickly."

There is nothing new about that chord progression in the exercise.
It's (in E major) I - V - ii - vii.
Click to expand...

C#m is a vi chord in E major, unless I’m missing something.
 
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#67
BBQisgood said:
C#m is a vi chord in E major, unless I’m missing something.
Click to expand...

Yes.
If that exercise is in E major (most probably), then, C#min (relative minor) is the vi chord while E is I.
Chords In The Key Of E Major

  • I – E major, E major seventh (Emaj, Emaj7)
  • ii – F sharp minor, F# minor seventh (F#m, F#m7)
  • iii – G sharp minor, G# minor seventh (G#m, G#m7)
  • IV – A major, A major seventh (A, Amaj 7)
  • V – B major, B dominant seventh (B, B7)
  • vi – C sharp minor, C# minor seventh (C#m, C#m7)
  • vii° – D# diminished, D# minor seventh flat five (D#°, D#m7b5)


If that exercise is in C# minor - E major and C# natural minor share the same key, then, C#minor is i and E is III.

Chords In The Key Of C Sharp Minor

  • i – C# minor, C# minor seventh (C#min, C#min7)
  • iidim – D# diminished, D# minor seventh flat five (D#dim, D#m7b5)
  • III – E major, E major seventh (Emaj, Emaj7)
  • iv – F# minor, F# minor seventh (F#min, F#min7)
  • v – G# minor, G# minor seventh (G#min, G#min7)
  • VI – A major, A major seventh (Amaj, Amaj7)
  • VII – B major, B dominant seventh (Bmaj, B7)
 
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#68
Whousedtoplay said:
Yes.
If that exercise is in E major (most probably), then, C#min (relative minor) is the vi chord while E is I.
Chords In The Key Of E Major

  • I – E major, E major seventh (Emaj, Emaj7)
  • ii – F sharp minor, F# minor seventh (F#m, F#m7)
  • iii – G sharp minor, G# minor seventh (G#m, G#m7)
  • IV – A major, A major seventh (A, Amaj 7)
  • V – B major, B dominant seventh (B, B7)
  • vi – C sharp minor, C# minor seventh (C#m, C#m7)
  • vii° – D# diminished, D# minor seventh flat five (D#°, D#m7b5)


If that exercise is in C# minor - E major and C# natural minor share the same key, then, C#minor is i and E is III.

Chords In The Key Of C Sharp Minor

  • i – C# minor, C# minor seventh (C#min, C#min7)
  • iidim – D# diminished, D# minor seventh flat five (D#dim, D#m7b5)
  • III – E major, E major seventh (Emaj, Emaj7)
  • iv – F# minor, F# minor seventh (F#min, F#min7)
  • v – G# minor, G# minor seventh (G#min, G#min7)
  • VI – A major, A major seventh (Amaj, Amaj7)
  • VII – B major, B dominant seventh (Bmaj, B7)
Click to expand...

You’ve got a typo in your previous post :)
 
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#72
all of this discussion is useless without hearing the track. maybe the A note sounds fine, but your ears are the problem.... maybe you dont like the sound of the rub of the major 7th. that can take time to acquire that taste. i personally dont like major 7 chords any more without the 9 and #11 added. it's how my ears have evolved.
 
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#75
Yonni said:
Cm | Bb | Fm7 | Gm7 G7
Abmaj7 | Ebmaj7 | Fm7 | Gm7 :||
Click to expand...

Easy "money" - DIATONICALLY-BORING..
Cmin - i
Ab - vi

Maybe, just one exception, that G7.
(How did we get it? LOL)

Chords In The Key Of C Minor

  • i – C minor, C minor seventh (Cmin, Cmin7)
  • iidim – D diminished, D minor seventh flat five (Ddim, Dm7b5)
  • III – E flat major, E flat major seventh (Ebmaj, Ebmaj7)
  • iv – F minor, F minor seventh (Fmin, Fmin7)
  • v – G minor, G minor seventh (Gmin, Gmin7)
  • VI – A flat major, A flat major seventh (Abmaj, Abmaj7)
  • VII – B flat major, B flat dominant seventh (Bbmaj, Bb7)
 
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#76
tubatodd said:
No arguments there. My notes would be 20 years old now. Yikes. I probably shouldn't have used that reference.

The bigger point I was trying to make is the bass note pretty well dictates the chord name and voicing.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm with you. It's just there is often too much misinformation around here that sometimes I can't help it to clarify some...

Take care,
GM
 
#77
shwashwa said:
all of this discussion is useless without hearing the track. maybe the A note sounds fine, but your ears are the problem.... maybe you dont like the sound of the rub of the major 7th. that can take time to acquire that taste. i personally dont like major 7 chords any more without the 9 and #11 added. it's how my ears have evolved.
Click to expand...
Yesterday I tried playing the octave instead of the root and it sounded better. So maybe you’re right!
 
#78
Yonni said:
The complete chart is:
E | Amaj7 B | F#m7 | C#m
B7 E | Amaj7 | F#m7 E | A :||
Click to expand...
Yonni said:
when I get to that Amaj7 it sounds off.
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Yonni said:
The accompanying tracks are very basic. Simple drum beats, strummed guitar and melody on piano.
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Assuming the chart and backing tracks are correct and assuming you are improvising a bass line (not a solo):

It sounds dissonant because it is, that's just how a major 7 chord rolls. The maj 7th is dissonant against the root, yet consonant with the 3rd and 5th in the strummed guitar.
Do the backing tracks alone sound ok? Then the guitar is making the melody sound good.
It's not a bass line's job to make the upper extensions sound consonant. The bass line's job is to make the harmony sound like it's based on the indicated root note.

You could theorize and experiment and use your ears until the cows come home.
But I wouldn't usurp the composer unless I had a reason to suspect the written part.
"just play the big letters" as they say.
 
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#79
I have a feeling it sounds fine it's just that the OP ears aren't developed enough, especially if the major 7th is in the top voice of the chord. And for some reason he's avoiding letting us hear the track, so that's just added confirmation for me.
I'm actually kind of suspicious that this is just a troll thread
 
#80
shwashwa said:
the OP ears aren't developed enough
Click to expand...

There are numerous youtube videos about that "problem".

"First, you don’t know how to properly HEAR Maj7 chords… let alone how to play over them. Second, stop assuming the root note of the chord is the strongest and most stable note to improvise from. You should NOT be jumping straight to C ionian over a CMaj7 chord and assuming that the C note is your tonic note."

 
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