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In Defense of '70s Fenders...

#61
1970 is just a convenient point of demarcation to say one bass is better than another (for whatever reason). Back in the day, preCBS builds were supposedly better than CBS instruments. What are the owners of those instruments to say? "This is CBS but at least it's not a '70's build.". Now the 70's guys say their basses have true vintage tone, not like those offshore builds. And so it goes.
Oh and I love my 76 P. It's heavy, but the tone is warm and smooth. Like caramel.
 
#63
I have a couple pre-CBS basses, a gaggle of 70's basses, a double handful of parts basses, a couple from the Custom Shop, several AV RI's and some newer Fenders. The 70's basses get the most time out at the gigs. Parts-basses next and these almost all have 70's necks at least.

The tech I use, has seen a bunch of 70's basses when they were new(ish). His biggest complaint was twisted necks. I have not had the misfortune of encountering one of those.

My '73 (butterscotch - natural ash) had a neck with a backbow but that was fixed and the bass is quite a delight now.

I always kind of figured that, except for the few still being discovered under beds, most of the "bad ones" are long gone into the scrap heap.
 
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#64
9mmMike said:
I have a couple pre-CBS basses, a gaggle of 70's basses, a double handful of parts basses, a couple from the Custom Shop, several AV RI's and some newer Fenders. The 70's basses get the most time out at the gigs. Parts-basses next and these almost all have 70's necks at least.

The tech I use, has seen a bunch of 70's basses when they were new(ish). His biggest complaint was twisted necks. I have not had the misfortune of encountering one of those.

My '73 (butterscotch - natural ash) had a neck with a backbow but that was fixed and the bass is quite a delight now.

I always kind of figured that, except for the few still being discovered under beds, most of the "bad ones" are long gone into the scrap heap.
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I think there's a lot of truth in that Mike.. that the majority of the worst ones have been parted out by now. And those old basses that still have yet to be found under beds and in tucked away in closets behind wool sport coats with leather elbow pads... those basses seem to inevitably wind up being bought by someone who has no idea how to do a set up, so they get tired of playing with ridiculous high action or buzzy frets, and after a few months they sell it and talk crap to other musicians online about how the entire '70s decade was awful.. because they played one or two that were never even given a real chance. And eventually those basses end up in my lap (or someone just like me), and then they finally get the attention they deserve with a proper set up, maybe a fret level and dressing, and the next buyer can't believe how amazing this '70s Fender is, despite all the bad juju they read about them on talkbass!
 
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#65
As some TBers know, I have come at collecting vintage Precision basses somewhat recently and very aggressively. I have owned a lot of them and held on to a nice core collection. I own almost all of the iconic P basses.

The best sounding of all are a 1970 Telecaster and a CS Pino Palladino.

Yes, machines are involved in making them. Always have been and always will be. But in the final analysis, each one is a singular instrument.

On a side not, I really encourage everyone to come to California and tour the Fender factory. It's a very satisfying experience.
 
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#66
ggvicviper said:
My dad and I took care of our instruments. The bass build was trash, and I said the stock pickup was bad not the modded one. I also said the truss bullet rusted, and I never said it had no setup. Having never seen or touched my dad's bass, I'm sure you know better than I do, right?

Furthermore, his reply made no sense whatsoever. It was barely a sentence, and not one that had any context in anything, or even used correct verbiage.
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Don't get so NY on us. We meant that you're young and learned on a bass that wasn't set up properly or had some issues that needed to be fixed which you haven't done and call it a bad build. Yes neither of us have seen it but if you hate it as bad as you do, send my a pic and I'll give you a little something for it and give it a good home.
 
#67
The Bass Clef said:
Not saying that the quality didn't slip in the CBS years, it did. But.. coming from someone who works on vintage Fenders almost everyday, I can say that a lot of them really do just get a bad rap simply because they just need a good set up. And I think there are a lot of bassists that really don't know how to do a proper setup, or they don't take it to someone who does. So naturally many people just blame it on being another "70s Fender". And I'm not saying there aren't some crap ones out there.. that goes with just about anything mass produced, especially in that era.. But I also know that a lot of those basses are crap because they were neglected and/or abused for years or decades, and not necessarily because of how they were made, or the materials or workmanship from 40 years ago. Any brand of instrument will need some love and attention after sitting for years.. or after being played for years, either way. All I'm sayin' is, I've bought more than a few '70s Fender basses that went from horrible to fantastic in about an hour or 2.

But another thing I don't read a lot about in the forums is the unique (and awesome) tone of '70s Fenders. All playability aside, '70s Fender sound the best to my ears. There's nothing like them. An no not all of them sound exeptional, but I can say most of the dozens and dozens I've bought and sold thru the years did. I have tried more models of aftermarket and reissue pickups than I can count, and nothing out there sounds like '70s Fender pickups. And the combination of those pickups, with a maple neck and an ash body.. it's music to my ears. I love me some pre-CBS tone too, in a totally different, warmer and mellower way. But I firmly believe for what '70s Fenders may sometimes lack in the workmanship dept, they usually more than make up for in the tone dept.
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___________________
Totally agree with the positive qualities of 70s fender tone...if one got one of those great necks that didn't move, and the body wasn't made of terribly heavy northern Ash, a great 70s Fender would be my pick of the whole lot. And I always have a soft spot for the blocked and bound necks. Part of me thinks it's too much, but I can't stop drooling over it. I Got so pissed when I FINALLY got a Japanese reissue of a '70s rosewood board J bass blocked and bound, and one day, eyeballed the position of the Neck PuP, and sure enough, it was in the 60s position! Could not believe they overlooked that, ralized why it never sounded quite right, and unloaded it pronto, which raises another point: I much prefer the 70s Jazz bridge position, regardless of WHY CBS moved it. Love that bark. And yeah, I remember the first time someone showed me a 70s J bass...probably in 1979. (White with a maple neck/ bound/ blocked in white. Looked like a musical creamsicle, beauty doesn't begin to describe it. It TASTED good to look at! But he wasn't really a player...just owned a bass. And even now I recall the heavy relief in that neck...It probably NEVER got adjusted, and warped to hell. What a shame.
 
#68
'72 that has been around the block a few times and looks like once around the park being drug by a broke string but I set it up myself and its a beast. I will never sell this bass. Apologies for the crappy pic. Guess I need to get one of those 800 dollar cameras now.
IMG_20141118_104640.jpg
 
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#70
Rich Terry said:
Don't get so NY on us. We meant that you're young and learned on a bass that wasn't set up properly or had some issues that needed to be fixed which you haven't done and call it a bad build. Yes neither of us have seen it but if you hate it as bad as you do, send my a pic and I'll give you a little something for it and give it a good home.
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How annoying. I'm saying I have an experience with a specific instrument, not all 70s Fenders, and gave all valid reasons why I call it an instrument of poor quality (cheap rusting truss bullet, poor quality stock bridge pickup, neck that shifts in pocket). Why must you try to spin it on me? I'm 30 years old, and I've owned enough basses to know good from bad. These aren't setup issues, they're build quality issues. I'm not taking time out to fix these issues right now because I don't care for this instrument, and making it better is not anywhere close to a priority. It's not even my bass, it's my dad's. I'd rather spend my money on other things, from saving for a house to getting basses I really want, which have included far better Fenders.
 
#71
The Bass Clef said:
Not in the tone dept though.. which is why I was compelled to post this thread. I read on here just about everyday how '70s Fenders are poor quality, but it's not very often that someone says, hey, wait a minute.. neck pocket gaps aren't the only thing to judge by (and many '70s Fenders have snug fitting neck pockets too). But the tone is the MAIN thing when judging any musical instrument to me! And '70s Fenders had it, and they had it consistently.. The average '70s P Bass has something in the timbre of the instrument that Fenders from all other decades don't have. So many have passed though my hands that just had the cheese! And the growl that comes form a '70s Jazz may not be for everyone, but they don't sounds like a new Amer. Std Jazz, that's for sure.
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I couldn't agree more with that last sentence....anybody got a link to a vid on an A/B with a 70s P or J vs an American Standard P or J...?...I think that would be very helpful..
 
#74
The build quality on my 1977 Jazz bass was less than ordinary.
The neck pocket had been filled in the factory with a dime sized piece of poly bog.
This of course was hidden under an Olympic white finish.
The finish flaked off to reveal a nice grain of Ash. Actually the paint came off too easily.
I quite prefer the natural finish though. The micro-tilt feature of the three screw neck joint
is pretty cool though and offers a little more than standard adjustment, without shims.
I spent the better part of 20 years chasing a sound with a Badass bridge and a variety of pickups.
Last year I put it all back to original. Finally found the sound I was looking for in the stock '77 Jazz bass

I am rather particular about the sounds I want to achieve from my playing and do not compromise on tone.
photo (11).JPG


slawie
 
#76
Wish I could share your enthusiasm, but the necks I've used in my 76 Precision slipped so much that I used to shim the pocket to try to keep it from slipping. Worked for a little while but it would always shift back eventually. I finally put in the shop not long ago to get inserts put in the neck to stop it (the keeping it original ship sailed in 1982, so whatever ;) ). Bought a 79 Precision a few years ago, and the neck pocket was better but the pickup in it only served to remind me of how much better my 76 sounded with replacement pickups. They're definitely not the worst pickups ever made, but I always felt they were a little light in the lows. Did an AB on here with an SX P I got a month before I got the 79, and most people preferred the sound of the SX. I also decided I liked the flatter fingerboard radius of the 83 neck that's in my 76 now instead of the 70's radius. Ended up selling the 79 and making $300...yay for me!

That said, I've heard a lot of really good players with stock 70's Precisions and Jazz Basses, and if they're your thing, I support you in your quest. As for me, I could maybe deal with them if they have a different pickup, although I still don't care for the rounder FB radius. But that's just me.
 
#77
The Bass Clef said:
Page 4 without anyone getting ripped a new one and no moderation!?! I'm proud of you talkbass! :)
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Well, great, now you jinxed it. XD

JimmyM said:
Wish I could share your enthusiasm, but the necks I've used in my 76 Precision slipped so much that I used to shim the pocket to try to keep it from slipping. Worked for a little while but it would always shift back eventually. I finally put in the shop not long ago to get inserts put in the neck to stop it (the keeping it original ship sailed in 1982, so whatever ;) ). Bought a 79 Precision a few years ago, and the neck pocket was better but the pickup in it only served to remind me of how much better my 76 sounded with replacement pickups. They're definitely not the worst pickups ever made, but I always felt they were a little light in the lows. Did an AB on here with an SX P I got a month before I got the 79, and most people preferred the sound of the SX. I also decided I liked the flatter fingerboard radius of the 83 neck that's in my 76 now instead of the 70's radius. Ended up selling the 79 and making $300...yay for me!

That said, I've heard a lot of really good players with stock 70's Precisions and Jazz Basses, and if they're your thing, I support you in your quest. As for me, I could maybe deal with them if they have a different pickup, although I still don't care for the rounder FB radius. But that's just me.
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Did yours have the four-bolt mount or the ugly three bolt? I'd understand if it was the latter, but four bolts shouldn't be THAT slippery, even for a CBS-era Fender.

What I DO like about 70s Fenders is the big black logo on the headstock that says Fender JAZZ BASS or Fender PRECISION BASS. It just shows off the piece of history you're playing in bold font and lets everyone know what is making that monstrous low end.
 
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#79
4 bolt, and it was, indeed, that slippery. And totally seconded about the logos of the 70's. And even though the 76 logo had smaller letters, it was still in your face. Thought they were a little, um, non-subtle back when I was younger, but those and the earlier 70's logos are now my favorite Fender logos, too. You can barely even see the logo on my 09 AmStd Precision!
 
#80
JimmyM said:
4 bolt, and it was, indeed, that slippery. And totally seconded about the logos of the 70's. And even though the 76 logo had smaller letters, it was still in your face. Thought they were a little, um, non-subtle back when I was younger, but those and the earlier 70's logos are now my favorite Fender logos, too. You can barely even see the logo on my 09 AmStd Precision!
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I hate the MIM logos before they switched to the CBS-era style as of 2008, I believe. Looks so ugly.
 

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