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In Light of the Gibson Raid (Revived old threads)

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Snakeman1066

Snakeman1066

Sep 17, 2007
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Central Valley
#1
#6
Snakeman1066 said:
ok Dave I get that, but your missing the point of my original post

In light of what has happened would you as a buyer consider different wood options

Brave new world...new wood options/alternatives

see linked threads above...
Click to expand...

As long as whatever company can show that it is harvesting its instrument woods responsibly and legally, I'd still buy whatever woods.

Gibson is a victim here.
 
#7
Dave Campbell said:
As long as whatever company can show that it is harvesting its instrument woods responsibly and legally, I'd still buy whatever woods.

Gibson is a victim here.
Click to expand...

Not debating Gibson being the victim Let's move away from that....to...

Almost half of the original forest cover on earth - over three billion hectares - is gone because humans have destroyed it. Forest loss between 1980 and 1995 was at least 200 million hectares, an area the size of Mexico. Each year, at least another 16 million hectares of natural forest, an area the size of Washington State, is lost in developing countries such as Brazil, Bolivia, and Madagascar.

Tropical woods like mahogany, rosewood and ebony do not grow in stands, but grow independent with other trees in the rain forest. To get these prized trees, loggers often clear an entire area. Another way to get these trees is to create openings or roadways into the forest. Once the road is there, other logging operations move in and massive degradation occurs.

With woods like Mahogony, Teak, Walnut, Cherry, Ebony and Rosewood being all listed as Endangered, Threatened and/or a Vulnerable Tree Species Traded Internationally? And in light of what just happened does it not make sense to use an alternative wood selection not on the Threatened or Endangered list? this is what I'm asking? This is where I'm trying to steer this thread...
 
#8
Snakeman1066 said:
Yep my main players seen lots of stages in the last two years and doing great...
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Good to know. :)

If a wood is durable and has a good tone to it, I would play an instrument made with it. I have not bought a new bass in a while, so I guess i'm technically "recycling." lol

I had a MM Bongo which was made of basswood and it had a great sound to it. I wish I could have kept it but funds were tight and I had to move it.
 
#9
The local shop owners ad I were just talking about this topic..not Gibson specifically but the wood issue. I believe that for a while now, piano makers have to provide documentation as to the materials the keys are made of. I see the whole wood raids issue as a step in forcing guitar manufacturers to do the same.

It will definitely force manufacturers to be sure of the source of their woods, and I hope those the manufacturers buy from.

It will also allow the govts/powers that be to insert another level of bureaucracy to milk more money out of the pot.

I also fear, in typical bureaucratic fashion, that the heavy hand of the law will come crashing down on the manufacturers, not those illegally harvesting woods etc... those guys will get the equivalent of a political handy J...
 
#11
Dave Campbell said:
The reasons are absolutely political, without getting into details It's really as simple as that. Gibson are being treated as pawns. This is a very sad, sad moment.

Customers buying Gibsons will be implicated as criminals.
Click to expand...

I disagree. What could possibly be the political motivation for raiding the company? If Gibson broke the law, they deserve to be punished.

I seriously doubt that people who buy Gibsons will be treated as criminals.
 
#13
In many of these areas the trees are cleared to make pastures for cattle - the beef of which end up in fast food chains.

If anything musicians' interest in these woods helps lobby groups raise awareness to the locals and the governments to preserve these forests. Often times the manufacturers use wood that has already fallen or is dead.
 
#14
madbassplaya said:
Good to know. :)

If a wood is durable and has a good tone to it, I would play an instrument made with it. I have not bought a new bass in a while, so I guess i'm technically "recycling." lol

I had a MM Bongo which was made of basswood and it had a great sound to it. I wish I could have kept it but funds were tight and I had to move it.
Click to expand...

here ya go Mad...

here I am rocking my Array Obsession...I love the way this thing sounds

mestagepocketlight.jpg
 
#15
Rockmusician said:
I disagree. What could possibly be the political motivation for raiding the company? If Gibson broke the law, they deserve to be punished.

I seriously doubt that people who buy Gibsons will be treated as criminals.
Click to expand...

They're being singled out, otherwise we'd be hearing about C.F. Martin, etc also being raided. Just because they're being raided doesn't automatically mean it's fair.
 
#17
Rockmusician said:
I disagree. What could possibly be the political motivation for raiding the company? If Gibson broke the law, they deserve to be punished.

I seriously doubt that people who buy Gibsons will be treated as criminals.
Click to expand...

to quote the article...

It's not enough to know that the body of your old guitar is made of spruce and maple: What's the bridge made of? If it's ebony, do you have the paperwork to show when and where that wood was harvested and when and where it was made into a bridge? Is the nut holding the strings at the guitar's headstock bone, or could it be ivory? "Even if you have no knowledge—despite Herculean efforts to obtain it—that some piece of your guitar, no matter how small, was obtained illegally, you lose your guitar forever," Prof. Thomas has written. "Oh, and you'll be fined $250 for that false (or missing) information in your Lacey Act Import Declaration."

Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.

Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.
 
#20
Did I misconstrue the original thread?? Didn't Gibson misrepresent the wood that they were actually shipping?

I did a little research about the CITES treaty that is the cause of this. Of the over 190 members of the UN, only about 15 or so are not parties and they are small countries that do not make instruments. So, it is not a competitive disadvantage for guitar manufacturers. They are all competing under the same rules.

Actually, this is a cool thread in that we are debating more sustainable methods of manufacturng. A good thing in my opinion.
 
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