Incident at the gas station

[petrus61]

Again, the agreement was to pay for $20 of gas. There is no disclaimer on the pump that says "Unless our attendant doesn't do their job". Cost of doing business if the business model is built on the presumption that all customers are crooks until they prove otherwise. Call the cops, I'm leaving. Here's my license plate number and address.

 

[hbarcat]

This situation happened to me before. I prepaid for gas with $20 - which was all the cash that I had on me - and the pump continued another $5 or so before I noticed it and shut it off.

But I handled it differently. I went inside and told the clerk what happened. She apologized for forgetting to set the pump to auto shut off. I told her that I would be back later in the day on my way home from work and would make up the $5. Everything was fine.

I've since looked this up as a legal issue. If a store accidentally undercharges a customer for an item or service then the customer legally owes the difference. However, in the real world, when the clerk catches the error immediately, and requests extra payment, if the customer refuses (somehow justifying the windfall) then the store policy is to simply write off the loss if the amount is trivial. This is for two reasons. 1) Goodwill. Places of business don't last long with a policy of annoying customers over trivial issues. 2) Enforcement. The police and the courts will almost never agree to pursue an error for trivial amounts.

The bottom line is : The OP legally and ethically owed the extra 7 dollars. The idea that if the clerk forgets to set the pump to auto shut off and the customer receives more gas than he asks for then the customer gets the extra gas for free is baseless. If fact, every gas station everywhere has a sign on every pump that says the customer is required to monitor the pump and is responsible for all gas that comes out, including overages.

Of course, this story is complicated by the fact that the clerk was being snotty about it, but that doesn't change the monetary obligation. Then the clerk (allegedly) made a vague kind of threat to the customer in case of refusal to pay ("We're going to have a problem.") Maybe he was implying that he would call the police. Or maybe he was implying a physical confrontation. Or maybe something else. Personally, I would have asked him to explain exactly what he meant by a "problem" and then based my further actions on his answer. Regardless, the clerk was way out of line to put his hand on your car door to try to prevent you from leaving. Legally, this opens him up to assault charges. Just reckless.

 

[FunkHead]

This situation happened to me before. I prepaid for gas with $20 - which was all the cash that I had on me - and the pump continued another $5 or so before I noticed it and shut it off.

But I handled it differently. I went inside and told the clerk what happened. She apologized for forgetting to set the pump to auto shut off. I told her that I would be back later in the day on my way home from work and would make up the $5. Everything was fine.

I've since looked this up as a legal issue. If a store accidentally undercharges a customer for an item or service then the customer legally owes the difference. However, in the real world, when the clerk catches the error immediately, and requests extra payment, if the customer refuses (somehow justifying the windfall) then the store policy is to simply write off the loss if the amount is trivial. This is for two reasons. 1) Goodwill. Places of business don't last long with a policy of annoying customers over trivial issues. 2) Enforcement. The police and the courts will almost never agree to pursue an error for trivial amounts.

The bottom line is : The OP legally and ethically owed the extra 7 dollars. The idea that if the clerk forgets to set the pump to auto shut off and the customer receives more gas than he asks for then the customer gets the extra gas for free is baseless. If fact, every gas station everywhere has a sign on every pump that says the customer is required to monitor the pump and is responsible for all gas that comes out, including overages.

Of course, this story is complicated by the fact that the clerk was being snotty about it, but that doesn't change the monetary obligation. Then the clerk (allegedly) made a vague kind of threat to the customer in case of refusal to pay ("We're going to have a problem.") Maybe he was implying that he would call the police. Or maybe he was implying a physical confrontation. Or maybe something else. Personally, I would have asked him to explain exactly what he meant by a "problem" and then based my further actions on his answer. Regardless, the clerk was way out of line to put his hand on your car door to try to prevent you from leaving. Legally, this opens him up to assault charges. Just reckless.

Best reply yet!

 

[Gopherbassist]

Not all pumps are pre pay, and if they turn on the pump for you you're responsible for all the gas you pump. If he wrote down your license plate he probably could call the police, but it's just $7, I'm sure the police have better things to do.

Also, I hope they had video cameras and one day someone releases the video of him hitting himself in the balls with your car door. That'd be classic.

 

[JMacBass65]

Shag the attendant, he screwed up.

I would have said "sorry dude, all I had was $20, that's why I gave it to you. So, since I don't have any more money, you can take $7 worth of gas back out of my tank. I got some time, I'll be over here on TB, lemme know when you are done."

 

[zontar]

I had the pump give me an extra couple of bucks the other day (I prepaid before using the gas pump--and it went over--but nobody came out to tell me to pay more.)

 

[El Güero]

All I can do is shake my head and think of things to say I shouldn't say, things that would get me warnings and disciplinary weenie whacks...but so what.

That clerk, the guy who's working Sunday on a holiday weekend, probably for minimum wage or not much more, is likely going to be the one who pays for the OP's $7 of "free" gas.

It's all the clerk's fault the OP pumped an extra $7 into the tank. Why on earth should the one pumping the gas take any responsibility for how much gas he put in his car? He can blame the clerk, he can make a scene at the station and just refuse to pay, and then start a thread about it. He could have paid with his debit card, but noooooooo.

This entitlement/lack of accountability bs is disgusting.

I suppose the OP did the clerk a favor by not pumping $50 of gas. If he doesn't owe for the $7 of gas, he can't owe for $50, right?

And let's be realistic, that extra $7 of gas is gas the OP didn't want, he would never have any use for it. Why on earth should anyone have to pay for gas they'll never use?

I am disappointed by how many support the OP on this. What the &^%$ is wrong with you people?

El largo adios

 

[PhatBasstard]

Slightly different situation:
Traveling cross country, I stop somewhere at a small town in New Mexico for a fill up and a pee break.
This station is, unusually, a pump first station. I plan on filling up so I start the pump and go inside.
I come out a few minutes later to gas shooting out of the side of my van. I shut the pump off.
I know by how much the bill is that there was about $12-$14 wasted on the ground.
The main guy wants me to pay it ($52). I tell him that my van at his price wouldn't take more than $38 bone dry.
I agree to $40 and say that "I'm not sure what the law is in New Mexico, but I'm pretty sure this would be considered
a safety hazzard". I then pointed at an underling that was cleaning up another obvious spill one pump aisle over
(something I barely noticed him doing when I first drove in).

I was allowed to leave.

 

[Will_White]

All I can do is shake my head and think of things to say I shouldn't say, things that would get me warnings and disciplinary weenie whacks...but so what.

That clerk, the guy who's working Sunday on a holiday weekend, probably for minimum wage or not much more, is likely going to be the one who pays for the OP's $7 of "free" gas.

It's all the clerk's fault the OP pumped an extra $7 into the tank. Why on earth should the one pumping the gas take any responsibility for how much gas he put in his car? He can blame the clerk, he can make a scene at the station and just refuse to pay, and then start a thread about it. He could have paid with his debit card, but noooooooo.

This entitlement/lack of accountability bs is disgusting.

I suppose the OP did the clerk a favor by not pumping $50 of gas. If he doesn't owe for the $7 of gas, he can't owe for $50, right?

And let's be realistic, that extra $7 of gas is gas the OP didn't want, he would never have any use for it. Why on earth should anyone have to pay for gas they'll never use?

I am disappointed by how many support the OP on this. What the &^%$ is wrong with you people?

El largo adios

Ok think rationally here for a bit, you have a twenty dollar bill, you give that twenty dollar bill to the clerk in exchange for 20$ worth of gas before you pump the gas, that's all the gas you wanted. You then start pumping the gas, check your phone, look at the cute chica walking by, your otherwise distracted. Then you look up and see that the clerk didn't set the pump to stop at the agreed upon twenty dollars and it's pumped an extra 7$ into your car. You only had that twenty dollar bill and you don't have any other means to pay for the surplus 7$ of fuel that you did not agree to pay for. It's not your job to watch the pump when you pre-pay, it's the clerks job to set the pump to stop at the agreed upon amount.

The OP didn't pump 27$ worth of fuel and then said oh I only have 20$, he paid for 20$ worth of fuel and the clerk made a mistake giving him 27$ of fuel. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a 20$ steak and then receiving a much nicer 27$ steak of the same cut and then receiving the bill for the 27$ steak when you only ordered the 20$ steak.

 

[Mike N]

Slightly different situation:
Traveling cross country, I stop somewhere at a small town in New Mexico for a fill up and a pee break.
This station is, unusually, a pump first station. I plan on filling up so I start the pump and go inside.
I come out a few minutes later to gas shooting out of the side of my van. I shut the pump off.
I know by how much the bill is that there was about $12-$14 wasted on the ground.
The main guy wants me to pay it ($52). I tell him that my van at his price wouldn't take more than $38 bone dry.
I agree to $40 and say that "I'm not sure what the law is in New Mexico, but I'm pretty sure this would be considered
a safety hazzard". I then pointed at an underling that was cleaning up another obvious spill one pump aisle over
(something I barely noticed him doing when I first drove in).

I was allowed to leave.

You started the pump and walked away, leaving it unattended?

 

[hrodbert696]

This situation happened to me before. I prepaid for gas with $20 - which was all the cash that I had on me - and the pump continued another $5 or so before I noticed it and shut it off.

But I handled it differently. I went inside and told the clerk what happened. She apologized for forgetting to set the pump to auto shut off. I told her that I would be back later in the day on my way home from work and would make up the $5. Everything was fine.

I've since looked this up as a legal issue. If a store accidentally undercharges a customer for an item or service then the customer legally owes the difference. However, in the real world, when the clerk catches the error immediately, and requests extra payment, if the customer refuses (somehow justifying the windfall) then the store policy is to simply write off the loss if the amount is trivial. This is for two reasons. 1) Goodwill. Places of business don't last long with a policy of annoying customers over trivial issues. 2) Enforcement. The police and the courts will almost never agree to pursue an error for trivial amounts.

The bottom line is : The OP legally and ethically owed the extra 7 dollars. The idea that if the clerk forgets to set the pump to auto shut off and the customer receives more gas than he asks for then the customer gets the extra gas for free is baseless. If fact, every gas station everywhere has a sign on every pump that says the customer is required to monitor the pump and is responsible for all gas that comes out, including overages.

Of course, this story is complicated by the fact that the clerk was being snotty about it, but that doesn't change the monetary obligation. Then the clerk (allegedly) made a vague kind of threat to the customer in case of refusal to pay ("We're going to have a problem.") Maybe he was implying that he would call the police. Or maybe he was implying a physical confrontation. Or maybe something else. Personally, I would have asked him to explain exactly what he meant by a "problem" and then based my further actions on his answer. Regardless, the clerk was way out of line to put his hand on your car door to try to prevent you from leaving. Legally, this opens him up to assault charges. Just reckless.

This is sound reasoning for a basic retail situation. But I think one could argue that the prepay arrangement voids it because it creates an implicit contract; the buyer has communicated a maximum that he will pay and the vendor commits to a corresponding maximum that he will provide. I would say the contract is designed to protect the buyer by promising him not to be charged above the maximum he's agreed to. If he pumped less than $20 worth, after all, he would still get change. So if the vendor is in control of the amount dispensed or can reasonably be expected to be, and dispenses more than he contracted to, he has breached the contract and can't claim compensation above what was agreed.

I've never noticed such a sign on a pump as you mention, declaring the customer responsible to monitor it. I'll have to check next time I go for gas if they have them here.

Totally agree that threatening the customer is reckless on the clerk's part. Of course, the security camera probably doesn't include audi, so it would be he-said/he-said in court about whether Gorn was threatened.

Obviously the best way to handle this would be to hurl massive chunks of styrofoam at each other.

 

[Gorn]

All I can do is shake my head and think of things to say I shouldn't say, things that would get me warnings and disciplinary weenie whacks...but so what.

That clerk, the guy who's working Sunday on a holiday weekend, probably for minimum wage or not much more, is likely going to be the one who pays for the OP's $7 of "free" gas.

It's all the clerk's fault the OP pumped an extra $7 into the tank. Why on earth should the one pumping the gas take any responsibility for how much gas he put in his car? He can blame the clerk, he can make a scene at the station and just refuse to pay, and then start a thread about it. He could have paid with his debit card, but noooooooo.

This entitlement/lack of accountability bs is disgusting.

I suppose the OP did the clerk a favor by not pumping $50 of gas. If he doesn't owe for the $7 of gas, he can't owe for $50, right?

And let's be realistic, that extra $7 of gas is gas the OP didn't want, he would never have any use for it. Why on earth should anyone have to pay for gas they'll never use?

I am disappointed by how many support the OP on this. What the &^%$ is wrong with you people?

El largo adios

Shake that head brother. Shake it.

I had no idea I was pumping extra gas until the clerk came out and told me. I wasn't looking at the readout. Like any prepay situation, I was waiting to hear the gas slowdown when it approaches twenty, which is what happens when the clerk does his job.

Had I noticed myself, I would've stopped pumping, gone inside, and paid the difference. Instead, he informed with anger and threats. I made a scene? He tried to force my door open while threatening me.

 

[JMacBass65]

I am disappointed by how many support the OP on this. What the &^%$ is wrong with you people?

El largo adios

What's wrong with expecting someone to do their job correctly?

I order a medium drink at Taco Hell. They give me a large cup. I go fill it up and sit down to eat. They come to me for another $1.25 or whatever. Because I have a large drink.

I would tell the to stuff it. They handed me the cup, I told them what I wanted. Its not my job to understand the cup sizes. For all I know, the cup he handed me WAS a medium.

If I noticed it was a large, great, I'd hand it back. But it's not my JOB to notice it.

Likewise, if I prepaid my gas, I'd be cleaning my car windows, or checking my oil, or whatever, with the expectation that the pump, would stop at $20, because that is how EVERY prepaid purchase I have made in my 50 years of living has worked in the past.

How easy would it be for a gas station to routinely over charge customers this way if they deliberately don't set the pump to shut off? And I don't rule out that is what happened here.

So no, free gas. Do your job properly, regardless of your compensation. That's how you move out of minimum wage work.

 

[Lobster11]

Obviously the best way to handle this would be to hurl massive chunks of styrofoam at each other.

Disagree. The best way to handle this is to fire the drummer.

The various hypothetical scenarios that have been offered got me to thinking about one. Suppose Gorn had decided to brave the holiday traffic and go over to New Jersey -- where there (infamously) is no self-serve option -- to get his gas. He rolls down the window, hands the attendant a $20 bill, and says, "Gimme 20 dollars worth of regular." The attendant takes the money, and proceeds to inadvertently pump $27 worth of gas before noticing his error.

What's interesting about this is that I suspect everyone would agree that Gorn would not be responsible for paying the extra 7 bucks if the attendant had been the one who actually did the over-pumping. This poses a challenge to those of us who think that Gorn should have paid for the gas that he himself inadvertently overpumped, and I think illustrates why different people have different opinions about his situation: Those who think Gorn was not obliged to pay for the extra gas see no difference between the two scenarios: In both cases, the overpumping was the attendant's error, and Gorn has no responsibility. Those of us who think the situations are different believe that it is the driver's responsibility to pump only what he paid for, and that the automatic cut-off system is there only as a kind of emergency backup designed to prevent exactly this kind of situation (as well as to prevent deliberate pump-and-runs).

I still maintain my original position, but this makes it more clear to me that there is room for honest disagreement. The argument seems to boil down to one's assumptions about the intent behind the automatic cut-off system, and maybe there isn't a single correct answer to that.