Double Bass Incorporating Modes into Practice Routine

[Higure420]

Hey guys! I have been editing my warm-up routine lately and I was wondering if I should include modes into it or should I spend my time focusing elsewhere? I know there are usually two sides when it comes to modes. I already spend about an hour each on Arpeggios and Scales so I would like to hear everyone's input on modes.

Thanks!

-John Hunter

 

[Tom Lane]

I'll be interested to read the replies of the more experienced players, but, here's my two cents. I agree that there are two sides to this. On the one hand, they're just a scale started on a something other than the tonic, on the other hand, they're a different color over a tonic center. For me, I found it important to be able to hear that color over the tonic center in my mind's ear, so I found practicing the modes against the tonic useful. As always, YMMV. I also found that that didn't take long once I focused on them. No where near as long as it took to learn to play the Major scales in 3 octaves in tune.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Thinking in terms of "modes over chords" on chord based music (most western popular music) has always seemed a clunky inefficient approach that only really appeals to educators. That doesn't however diminish the value of understanding how derivative modes work/sound and the harmony which arises. So yes, practice modes.

 

[jloehrke]

If you're already putting in 2 hours a day on scales and arpeggios, enough already with the drill; don't pile a mode routine on top of that. You're covering most of that with the scales anyway. Get into some music! Life is short.

 

[tmntfan]

the point is to play music not scales so I would advise to do the following:

I would skip playing just 3 note maj and min triads and just do the following extended chords: Maj9 min9 Dom9, half dim 7, and dim7
for the 9th chords go 1,3,5,7,9 then back to 1 and up over 2 or 3 octaves. start on the lowest note and go as high as you can. Eg. for a c major start on the low e and go as high into thumb position as you are comfortable (I'd go for the Second e on the g string)

rather than go through the cycle of 4ths do the cycle of 5ths as most jazz is 5th movement based :II-V-I and play it as a 2-5.
Play a D minor 9 arpeggio then a G dominant arpeggio then c major one. (and for minor play D half dim, G Dom, Cmin)

same with scales. play d dorian, g mixoldian, c ionian. from lowest note to highest. also work on different fingerings, (we bass players tend to do everything on the g sting so play all on the E string as high as you can, then go up the A string, Etc.

then find a song and play through all the modes/arpeggios of the the song (for autumn leaves in G play: A min7/A dorian: D9/d mixo: G maj9/g ionian: C maj7#11/C lydian: F# dim7/F# locrian: B7b9/whateverdominatyouthinkfits: E min9/E Aeolian

Hope this helps.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Can you HEAR the interval that each mode brings? Learn to add them into your playing.

Major: b7 in Mixolydian,
#4 in Lydian.

Minor: nat.6 in Dorian, b2 in Phrygian.

 

[Higure420]

Hey guys! Thanks for the responses!

I have a lot more free time on my hands now so I was able to add the extra warm up time on top of repertoire time.

Would it be good to skip the triads? I have been thinking of taking them out as I would be going over them when I go over seventh chords. I plan to do each chord in every inversion. I will do the ii-V-I and do the extensions though now. That seems really useful. I try to find different fingerings when I practice my arpeggios and scales. It would be a bit boring if I did the same fingering everyday.

I am starting to hear the differences between each mode. I can hear the b7 in mixolydian and the #4 in Lydian. I can tell the difference between Aeolian and Dorian but it is a bit of a challenge to tell the difference between Phrygian and Locrian though. Maybe I just need to spend more time on ear training.

---John Hunter

 

[Groove Doctor]

Great. Try SINGING each mode - Ascending & Descending first, then DESCENDING ONLY.

I got a lot more out of doing that than just playing them - it really internalised it for me. You can also practice it throughout the day away from your instrument.

PS. Phrygian has nat.5th vs Locrian has a b5th (diminished sound).

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Would it be good to skip the triads?

No, ignoring triad and arpeggios would be bad. Most music you're likely to play is based on chords (Blues, Rock, most Jazz, Country, R&B etc) and one of your primary roles as a bass player will always be to clearly state those chords. To do that you need to know what those chords (triads & arpeggios) sound like individually, what they sound like in harmonic context and where those sounds live on the instrument. It's kinda stupid to say one aspect of knowledge is more important than another when you really do need a broad range to play great music. But I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that knowing arpeggios is one of the more useful things you can come to grips with. What you'll find as you progress is that all this stuff interrelates and that you really do have to practice it all. Yes it's a lifelong task but you take it one day at a time and measure your progress over months and years not days and weeks.

Look at Fuqua's post REALLY Learning a tune. If there's one thing someone has said that's led me to a deeper comprehension of creating music on chord changes this is it. The idea is simple but a massive amount of work and that notion is generally a pretty safe thing to set your musical clock to.

 

[Higure420]

I am terribly sorry, that came out wrong.

I meant if I should be practicing basic 3-Note triads since I am doing seventh chords. After all seventh chords are the basic triads with a seventh added.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I am terribly sorry, that came out wrong.

I meant if I should be practicing basic 3-Note triads since I am doing seventh chords. After all seventh chords are the basic triads with a seventh added.

Ok that's more clear but I would still practice triads simply because they are the fundamental building blocks of chordal music.

[unsolicited rant]
For at least the last 20 years practice has been a pretty fluidly defined activity with a more musically specific purpose than what I suspect you are aiming at as you grope for a routine. I'm much more likely to work arpeggios through a standard like I Thought About You because it's a tune I'd like to know better than I would be to practice an Eb Maj arpeggio because it's Tuesday. And I might well spend some time just with the basic triads just to see what I could do with that set of changes in its most rudimentary form. Or if I play three octave scales through the derivative modes in one key I'm probably using them as a vehicle for working on drawing sound with the bow or to find better intonation. And I'd probably mix that up with arpeggios and evolve into melodic themes too. This may seem like a random, unfocused approach but I gave up a long time ago trying to practice anything that didn't have my complete attention. I let what I can't do inform my practice from moment to moment. A rote schedule like you seem to be after would bore me ****less and bored practice is a waste of my time. Often I have no idea what I'm going to practice when I pick up the bass. What I do have clearly defined is that I will practice with complete focus and find something I can't do well and stick with it until I find improvement.
[/unsolicited rant]

 

[Higure420]

I highly agree with you there. I have been experimenting for a while with the routine and I am toying around with how to incorporate things more musically instead of just playing them. This thread really helped me a lot in terms of organizing things in a different perspective. Thanks again for your input! Its really valuable information and it helps tremendously.