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Indonesia, The New Korea?

Winston TK

Winston TK

Hairpiece Adventurer
Oct 8, 2001
484
20
60
Burnaby, BC Canada
#1
I see that production of certain manufacturers' product lines has moved to Indonesia these days. The new Ibanez ATK I purchased yesterday is an example of a product made there. I was a little doubtful at first (probably a stupid prejudiced attitude, I admit), but this thing seems very well made. My only real complaint so far is the fret edges. They seem a little sharp and unfinished. But, otherwise, this bass seems excellent.

What are your thoughts on Indonesian-made instruments?
 
#2
I have an ESP D-5 (currently selling) that is Indonesian, and is of excellent quality. I think the bottom line is that most of these factories ( no matter wher they are) are capable of producing the level of quality, the customer requires. If the customer allows crap, then that's what you'll get. The customer in this example being ESP / Ibanez. An extra few minutes of sweating the details only equates to a few extra bucks at those labor rates, and makes all the difference in overall quality.
 
#3
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Cort and Samick are the two big manufacturers in Indonesia. Those companies do a lot of work for name brands. The Squier Standard Series instruments, for example, are made in Indonesia by Cort and are very good quality(full disclosure: I have the p-bass special and the telecaster from that series).

EDIT: It is also interesting to note that both Cort and Samick are Korean based companies.
 
#4
It's an interesting phenomenon.

Over the past 40 years, production of instruments (and industry in general) has gradually migrated to poorer nations in order to cut costs for the host company. At each turn, the customer is a bit suspicious of the resultant quality. But, eventually, each level becomes established and customer trust is (at least somewhat) created.

And, at each stage, the products from the previous manufacturing area become more sought after, and more expensive. Japan over Mexico, Mexico over Korea, Korea over China/Indonesia, etc.

Quality control in these regions is always the sticking point. You do have to "try before you buy".
 
#5
Regarding the fret sprout, I think the reason it is so prevalent in import basses is due to the frequent and long distance shipping of the product. You ship a bass from Arizona to Louisiana and some things are boung to go wonky. Now ship it from the other end of the world: wonky to the third power.

Heck, some basses even develop fret sprout sitting in a music room where the humidity is too dry.

PS: Japan became sought after, at least in the Fender lineup, because they used a comparable quality of wood and electronics to the US models, like the Skylines and Tributes, but with sometimes better construction. The heydays of Japanese Fenders are in a troubled period for the US models.

Can't say that about the new Mexican ones (or the 90's ones). Fender USA is now back in full force, producing way more than 1 good axe for 10 duders like it used too.
 
#6
I used to have one of the newer Lakland skyline 55-02s that are being manufactured in Indonesia and can tell you that it was a very well built instrument. One of the best basses in terms of fit and finish and quality that I have had. Felt, looked, and played great.

Edit: I think in nowadays there is so much competition and it is putting pressure on companies to churn out better gear, even in their budget lines. Consumers are wanting more bass for their money, even in budget lines and companies are finally improving their game.

A good bass whether it is made in US/Japan/Mexico/Korea/China/Indonesia shouldn't be a problem to make as long as the factory is well equipped with the proper CNC and other machinery, well trained workers, and good QC procedures.
 
#8
I've seen a Lakland shipped here which had reverse fret sprout (US Lakland shipped to tropical Singapore, near Indonesia). I don't really think any factory ought to be held accountable for fret sprout as it really is weather based.

I don't believe Indonesia will become the next Korea. Korean work ethic i feel is rather close to the Japanese - they will do something to the best of their ability not because you pay them for it but because they believe in their work. From my interactions with Indonesians i don't see that attitude as often. Although everything's produced on a CNC machine in both countries, things like wiring and finishing are still hand-done.
 
#9
Winston TK said:
It's an interesting phenomenon.

Over the past 40 years, production of instruments (and industry in general) has gradually migrated to poorer nations in order to cut costs for the host company. At each turn, the customer is a bit suspicious of the resultant quality. But, eventually, each level becomes established and customer trust is (at least somewhat) created.

And, at each stage, the products from the previous manufacturing area become more sought after, and more expensive. Japan over Mexico, Mexico over Korea, Korea over China/Indonesia, etc.

Quality control in these regions is always the sticking point. You do have to "try before you buy".
Click to expand...

+1

I think eventually, production will have migrated around enough countries that Asia will be populated with scores of master luthiers. Only question is where they'll move production to after the Asian countries have all become too expensive. Think Africa will ever get a shot at it?
 
#10
My concern is with child/forced labor in these countries. Not saying any or all of these companies are guilty of that, but it can be hard to know exactly where abuses are taking place.

If I buy one of these products I'm torn between feeling that I'm either
1. Doing a good thing by helping give these workers their $1 a day when I buy their products
2. Contributing to the problem by taking advantage of their cheap labor.

I realize I can't wear Converse sneakers, or jeans, or t-shirts without involving some impoverished workers (possibly in a sweatshop), I'm just not comfortable with it is all.
 
#11
I'd like to see you stop using any asian manufactured goods and see how you get on with life.

zenrad said:
My concern is with child/forced labor in these countries. Not saying any or all of these companies are guilty of that, but it can be hard to know exactly where abuses are taking place.

If I buy one of these products I'm torn between feeling that I'm either
1. Doing a good thing by helping give these workers their $1 a day when I buy their products
2. Contributing to the problem by taking advantage of their cheap labor.
Click to expand...
 
#12
elBandito said:
I'd like to see you stop using any asian manufactured goods and see how you get on with life.
Click to expand...

Did you read the last sentence of my post?

zenrad said:
I realize I can't wear Converse sneakers, or jeans, or t-shirts without involving some impoverished workers (possibly in a sweatshop), I'm just not comfortable with it is all.
Click to expand...

Once again...I'm just not comfortable with it is all.
 
#14
OUch
Link Removed

on the other hand in S korea..
* For the year 2000, the ILO projects that there will be 0 economically active children between the ages of 10-14. (ILO, International Labour Office - Bureau of Statistics, Economically Active Population 1950-2010, STAT Working Paper, ILO 1997)

* For the year 2000, 449000 children between 15-19 years were economically active. (ILO, Yearbook of Labour Statistics, 2001)

* 411,000 teenagers between 15-19 years are economically active. (ILO, Yearbook of Labour Statistics, 1999)

* In 1995, there were 0 economically active children between the ages of 10-14. (ILO, International Labour Office - Bureau of Statistics, Economically Active Population 1950-2010, STAT Working Paper, ILO 1997)

GENERAL NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS

* The Labour Standard laws of the country prohibit the employment of persons under the age of 15 without a special employment certificate from the Labour Ministry. There are no reported cases of violations of child labour laws. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 1999, 25 February 2000)
 
#15
elBandito said:
OUch
Link Removed

on the other hand in S korea..
* For the year 2000, the ILO projects that there will be 0 economically active children between the ages of 10-14. (ILO, International Labour Office - Bureau of Statistics, Economically Active Population 1950-2010, STAT Working Paper, ILO 1997)

* For the year 2000, 449000 children between 15-19 years were economically active. (ILO, Yearbook of Labour Statistics, 2001)

* 411,000 teenagers between 15-19 years are economically active. (ILO, Yearbook of Labour Statistics, 1999)

* In 1995, there were 0 economically active children between the ages of 10-14. (ILO, International Labour Office - Bureau of Statistics, Economically Active Population 1950-2010, STAT Working Paper, ILO 1997)

GENERAL NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS

* The Labour Standard laws of the country prohibit the employment of persons under the age of 15 without a special employment certificate from the Labour Ministry. There are no reported cases of violations of child labour laws. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 1999, 25 February 2000)
Click to expand...

yeah, Korea [south] is very "civilizated", but I don't know about China and Indonesia.
 
#16
My GSR200 was made in Indonesia, and other than a loose pot a few months in it's the cat's meow as far as build quality goes.

The pickups could be a bit nicer though, though that'd be totally up to Ibanez to address. The five string American Standard Jazz I played at GC last weekend had beautiful tone...
 

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