Inexpensive woods for warwick tone?

[Means2nEnd]

What I can tell you is my experience with owning over 20 different German Warwicks and some were neck through, some bolt on, some bubinga, and some ash. For a while I was addicted to changing preamps and pickups and did it to more than half my Warwicks and Spectors and many others. One thing that was apparent is in the end how the particular bass sounded played acoustically is a really close indicator to what it’s going to sound like amplified regardless of pickups or preamps or strings. No matter what preamps or even wired passive or what pickups the Warwicks still sounded like Warwicks and the Spectors like Spectors. I just bought a brand new Ibanez with a wenge neck and Ovankol top on the body and mahogany body very close woods to my Warwick Streamer Stage II and brother it doesn’t sound even close or similar at all. In the end there maybe a time to change a pickup or preamp but my belief that there would be huge changes by changing those things was completely wrong. I wasted so much time and money only to find if I really don’t like the tone of a bass the best thing to do is move it.

I don’t think anyone is right. The player I think is the biggest part of the equation and it gets to be a smaller percentage down the line. Woods, hardware, fret materials whatever. I think the other than the first part of the equation the player the rest of it changes with each bass and builder. Nobody has it right unless they say sometimes it does a lot sometimes a little and sometimes it doesn’t at all.

Mike Tobias says pickups can only pickups the string vibrations because they are the right metals to affect the electromagnetic field around the pickups but the woods affect the way the string vibrates. I have no idea which is more important be it the pickups or strings or wood or pickup placement.

I see the arguments all the time about woods affect and it’s always with some garbage components and the guy is like hey man can you smell the difference between this rotten beef or rotten deer meat. The two guys with about $14 worth of components laugh and smile they aren’t sure what they proved but they are ready to fight about it. I have held two MTD with identical pickups, strings, size, basic construction, preamps everything being almost completely exact except the woods. They sound completely different in the attack and brightness. If you can’t hear that maybe you should be doing something else.

 

[Hopkins]

So Hopkins can you give the OP some cheap options as requested.

Well, he already mentioned swamp ash for the body.

 

[Deep Cat]

I don't think anyone is saying that there is not a difference in timbre/tone between one bass with one set of woods and one with another. The "wood doesn't matter club" (of which I am a member) is saying that one cannot reasonably or accurately predict the actual effects of different pieces of "tone" wood when actually made into an electric instrument.

For what its worth, I think Warwick's hardware (frets, bridge, nut) probably have more discernible effect on the Warwick Sound than the wood.

 

[LightGroove]

I don't think anyone is saying that there is not a difference in timbre/tone between one bass with one set of woods and one with another. The "wood doesn't matter club" (of which I am a member) is saying that one cannot reasonably or accurately predict the actual effects of different pieces of "tone" wood when actually made into an electric instrument.

For what its worth, I think Warwick's hardware (frets, bridge, nut) probably have more discernible effect on the Warwick Sound than the wood.

Point taken..does every other thread have to become the same debate. The OP wanted some wood ideas..obviously he thinks it matters. Can those that feel the same chime in and those that dont stay quiet for once?

 

[Beej]

Point taken..does every other thread have to become the same debate. The [DEL]OP [/DEL] Vincenzo Maculani wanted some [DEL]wood ideas[/DEL] confirmation of earth-centricity obviously he thinks it matters. Can those that [DEL]feel the same [/DEL]disagree with heliocentrism chime in and those that dont stay quiet for once?

I know this sounds snotty, but could people please just keep up with science for once?

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

I know this sounds snotty, but could people please just keep up with science for once?

Regards
Sam

 

[Hopkins]

Point taken..does every other thread have to become the same debate. The OP wanted some wood ideas..obviously he thinks it matters. Can those that feel the same chime in and those that dont stay quiet for once?

The OP asked how to make a bass made from inexpensive woods sound like a Warwick. I told him exactly how to make it sound like a Warwick.

 

[MPU]

For what its worth, I think Warwick's hardware (frets, bridge, nut) probably have more discernible effect on the Warwick Sound than the wood.

I agree. Warwick frets give their own effect on the sound. I refretted a bass with nickel frets with Warwick brass frets and noticed a difference in sound. Fret profile was very close the same so that did not made the change.

 

[LightGroove]

The OP asked how to make a bass made from inexpensive woods sound like a Warwick. I told him exactly how to make it sound like a Warwick.

Um...no he didnt. Perhaps re-read his post again.

 

[LightGroove]

Hi, I'm building a bass and I wanted to use some warwick-esque woods to get that tone, but wenge and bubinga are out of my budget. I was going to do a wenge neck & fingerboard with a maple skunk stripe, and bubinga wings, but that's too expensive. What can get similar tones that isn't as expensive? I'd prefer a darker looking neck wood with a brighter tone, and I think I might just use swamp ash on the body.

Here I helped you out..he's specifically looking for dark wood options that may provide a similar tone.

He think it matters..you dont...Both are right at this point as neither can be proven or disproven...

I know Im coming off as a **** but in reality this Luthier corner has become a mess over the past couple of years. We've lost some good folks b/c of this useless babble...and to be honest discouraged others who are coming here to learn.

 

[Hopkins]

Here I helped you out..he's specifically looking for dark wood options that may provide a similar tone.

He think it matters..you dont...Both are right at this point as neither can be proven or disproven...

I know Im coming off as a **** but in reality this Luthier corner has become a mess over the past couple of years. We've lost some good folks b/c of this useless babble...and to be honest discouraged others who are coming here to learn.

He also never said anything about electronics or hardware. So from now on, if it is not mentioned in the thread I will just assume that that information is common place and does not need mentioning.

If my information discourages anyone wanting to learn I will stop offering it.

 

[Mechanical]

You could figure it out with a spectrum analyzer.

Also, for those who think wood doesn't matter, what about strings?

 

[Deep Cat]

If wood matters, you can't replace one wood with another and expect similar tone.

If it doesn't matter, it's all about hardware and electronics, in which case, you can.

Also, for those who think wood doesn't matter, what about strings?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Hopkins]

You could figure it out with a spectrum analyzer.

Also, for those who think wood doesn't matter, what about strings?

Strings can cause the most dramatic differences in tone. Switching from a set of flats to a set of stainless rounds will completely change the tone of any instrument.

 

[Mechanical]

Strings can cause the most dramatic differences in tone. Switching from a set of flats to a set of stainless rounds will completely change the tone of any instrument.

But the strings vibrate at the same frequency (440 Hz) to make an A note for example, no?

 

[Hopkins]

But the strings vibrate at the same frequency (440 Hz) to make an A note for example, no?

I don't understand what you are trying to say

 

[Mechanical]

I don't understand what you are trying to say

Well, I've already got you to concede that

pickup placement and electronics are going to far and away have the biggest influence on the tone.

to

Strings can cause the most dramatic differences in tone.

So I'm guessing it's not just the vibration of the string that makes a difference in tone, the biggest influence on tone is how that string is manufactured, according to you, even though they are vibrating at the same exact primary frequency.

So your concession is noted.

Now, you might also be lead to believe that when you go to a Warmoth or Carvin website and they give an indication of the tonal qualities of the wood, they may have a point. Or when Ibanez makes their cheaper basses out of basswood, but their more expensive versions out of more exotic woods, it is for a reason. Or you might think that Roscoe, Xylem, Fodera, et al. choose their woods it has nothing to do with the tonal qualities of the wood but rather just making an expensive instrument more expensive.

So if you went from pickup placement and electronics are the most important part of tone to string manufacture is the most important part of tone, perhaps you might think about making another (albeit small) concession that the wood in the neck, fretboard, and body matters for tone.

 

[Right_Butterscotch64]

Well, I've already got you to concede that



to



So I'm guessing it's not just the vibration of the string that makes a difference in tone, the biggest influence on tone is how that string is manufactured, according to you, even though they are vibrating at the same exact primary frequency.

So your concession is noted.

Now, you might also be lead to believe that when you go to a Warmoth or Carvin website and they give an indication of the tonal qualities of the wood, they may have a point. Or when Ibanez makes their cheaper basses out of basswood, but their more expensive versions out of more exotic woods, it is for a reason. Or you might think that Roscoe, Xylem, Fodera, et al. choose their woods it has nothing to do with the tonal qualities of the wood but rather just making an expensive instrument more expensive.

So if you went from pickup placement and electronics are the most important part of tone to string manufacture is the most important part of tone, perhaps you might think about making another (albeit small) concession that the wood in the neck, fretboard, and body matters for tone.

Heres a thought, that spalted maple top on that fancy exotic bass is diseased wood with the tonal properties of cardboard. The simplest answer to why more expensive basses use fancier woods is.....here it is....BECAUSE THEY MAKE MORE MONEY SELLING FANCY LOOKING WOODS.

Ever wonder why prettier woods always seem to be more "exotic" and "sound better", but are always so expensive?

Is it really coincidence that Rosewood sounds "darker" and is a much darker color than "bright and snappy" maple which just happens to be a much lighter color?

Gimme a break.

 

[Mechanical]

Heres a thought, that spalted maple top on that fancy exotic bass is diseased wood with the tonal properties of cardboard. The simplest answer to why more expensive basses use fancier woods is.....here it is....BECAUSE THEY MAKE MORE MONEY SELLING FANCY LOOKING WOODS.

Ever wonder why prettier woods always seem to be more "exotic" and "sound better", but are always so expensive?

Is it really coincidence that Rosewood sounds "darker" and is a much darker color than "bright and snappy" maple which just happens to be a much lighter color?

Gimme a break.

Why does walnut, which is quite a dark wood, give a bright top end?

I think it is time for you to give me a break, given the data points above. If indeed it is true that you believe that wood doesn't matter, I'm guessing you play a loblolly pine bass with an elm neck.

Either provide the spectrum analyzer data or don't say things you don't have the data to provide evidence for.

First one says pickups and electronics are the most important part of tone. Then one says how the string is made is the most important part of tone despite the exact same frequency of the fundamental.

That's a major concession.

My suggestion, given the concession above, is that then one can (and might) extrapolate that the wood can be an important part of tone. Put another way: With the amplifier off and plugs in your ears, do you not feel the instrument vibrate when you pluck a string? Here's a bit of physics: if the instrument is vibrating, so are the pickups that "pick up" the vibrations of the string, which may affect the tone.

Simple physics.

It's as if you have an RF amplifier and a pick-up capacitor. If the capacitor is moving relative to the amplifier with a frequency that is equal to the amplifier frequency (either in or out of phase), it will dampen some signal and amplify others depending upon its phase difference. This difference might be affected by the response of the Hooke's Law constants (which can be a function of frequency) of the material that makes the capacitor move. It will do likewise with the overtones.

Fact is, a Tektronix spectrum analyzer worth a damn is worth about $60K and depending upon what you want more than that. Most boutique and major bass manufacturers may have access to such an instrument. I'd guess they might have done their homework to ensure that when one of their customers spends $4K on a bass, they are getting the highest quality tone that the manufacturer desires.

 

[Right_Butterscotch64]

Then would you please be so kind to do so as well? Because we can totally count on an unbiased opinion from guitar manufacturers and luthiers.