Info on a Large Mexican Mariachi Bass

[Robyn]

That's an interesting -possibly custom- find, but not at all a traditional Guitarron which are fretless, 6 stringed and nearly always less than 30 inch scale.

Similarly to you though, actually playing one did calm my GAS quite a bit. Not that I wouldn't still like one, but it quickly disabused me of the idea that it'd be nothing more than a big ABG that I could pick up and play easily. It's definitely it's own animal.

 

[Robyn]

I think perhaps what you played might be a similar guitar to what I have.

 

[Eilif]

Okay folks! I have photos and the info on the giant acoustic bass I was asking about. It's a Harptone fretted 4 string (duh!) with spruce top. I can't tell what the body's made from but it doesn't have much grain, so I expect maybe a plain maple (as the hardwood aspect would give a good sound, right?) It's not Brazilian rosewood or mahogany or an exotic wood as far as I can tell. Model is B-4 and SN# is 2028-80. It's in really good (might I say excellent) condition, hasn't been out of the case since before Pete passed in 1988 (until now). It's been stored in a home with AC and heat so no extreme temps have touched it.
I will add a few pics. I'm really interested in the value of this because of the relative rarity of the insturment combined with the fact that it was used by Pete on many sessions he produced on various artists. I know it was used on BJ Thomas (my husband said he liked the tictac sound). As for how it came to be in Mexico, played in a Mariachi band (when he found it and bought it off the musician), I don't suppose we'll ever know.... But I know for sure (my husband Johnny had to deal with bringing the dang thing back on the plane on his lap!!!!! Obviously the rules about flying with a giant guitar were different back then.... But that's a story for another day.... and oh my....are there stories!!! lol!!!). Thanks for any leads or help you might be able to offer me!

Looks like what you have there is not a Guitarron but fairly standard styled Acoustic Bass Guitar (ABG). ABGs are fairly common and you can walk into Guitar Center and buy one today. Top wood appears to be spruce which is fairly common in acoustic instruments.

However, you might have something special there. If the info here is correct:
Invalid Link Removed
If it is made in the USA (look for a sticker inside the body), and was made in very limited numbers that's a good thing. 80's USA instruments are becoming more and more popular and expensive these days.

This site
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Suggests that Harptone was the first company to make an ABG, but I have my doubts.

Price comparisons will be hard to find, but look on Ebay and Reverb to see what Harptone guitars sold for. Right now Reverb has Harptones for between 800 and 1250. I couldn't tell you whether a Harptone bass would be more valuable due to it's rarity or less valuable due to folks not knowing about it.

Perhaps someone else will be able to offer better advice on value but if you do decide to sell it, be sure to emphasize the country of origin, age, and rarity.

Good Luck.

EDIT:
More info on Harptone here:
The History and Development of the American Guitar

 

[Robyn]

Thanks for your input. I have found a little info on the Harptone guitar. They only made the bass for a short period of time and from what I can find, not many were made (I'm trying to figure out what the SN means. I think it should give me an idea of the year it was built and what number it was. The sticker I posted is in the guitar glued to the inside back. I haven't found any for sale except one that sold sometime back.... it went for $400 which seemed low to me based on the rarity. I couldn't find much out about it. I might take it over to George Gruhen (who's an old friend of mine) to see what he might have to say about it.....

 

[HaphAsSard]

Okay folks! I have photos and the info on the giant acoustic bass I was asking about. It's a Harptone fretted 4 string (duh!) with spruce top.

Whoah! Yeah, no, not a guitarrón mexicano, and leagues more interesting because of its rarity.

According to one "Earthwood fan"
- the Ernie Ball Earthwood, introduced in 1972, being the most famous of the early, big acoustic bass guitars of yore, alongside the Guild B30 and B50 -
the Harptone was the earliest
(horizontally played, thus excluding the late '30s Regal BassoGuitar and assorted upright fretted beasts like the mandobass, contrabass balalaika and domra, berde etc.)
ABG ever made, in 1965 (!; ?), and its only "competition"
(we're talking very little numbers and an ocean away)
back in the Sixties was the 1968 Link Removed.

Harptone initially even supplied Ernie Ball backs
(flat per Ernie's specs, unlike their own model's arched design, reminiscent of the guitarrón's and later also adopted by Guild)
and sides for the Earthwood.

[Paging TB members @bholder, @GretschWretch, @mikeoso, @bearfoot and @Bflat.]

 

[mikeoso]

The value and usefullness of those old abgs is a direct function of their size. I dont know specs on that Harptone, and have never seen one, so I'm no help whatsoever.

 

[GretschWretch]

Harptone Four String Acoustic Bass Guitar | EBTH

Link Removed

Compare the headstocks. Stan Koontz apparently was involved with both marques.

Then there is this and I've no idea what it is, but I would guess 1968-ish. I do not think it is a Frankenbass. The LP was recorded in 1973. I've not read all the links, but I find the claim that the Harptone antedates the Earthwood quite credible. Look how many years passed before we discovered that Leo Fender did not invent the electric bass guitar.

 

[Eilif]

Thanks for your input. I have found a little info on the Harptone guitar. They only made the bass for a short period of time and from what I can find, not many were made (I'm trying to figure out what the SN means. I think it should give me an idea of the year it was built and what number it was. The sticker I posted is in the guitar glued to the inside back. I haven't found any for sale except one that sold sometime back.... it went for $400 which seemed low to me based on the rarity. I couldn't find much out about it. I might take it over to George Gruhen (who's an old friend of mine) to see what he might have to say about it.....

Ha!
If you've know George Gruhen, you've got access to a big step ahead of the rest of us in terms of instrument knowledge and appraisal. Perhaps you could put it on consignment there or a similar high-end instrument shop.

I agree with you, $400 definitely seems much too low and most likely reflects folks not knowing the history. If it were mine I certainly wouldn't list it anywhere for less than 1k initially. I imagine (only guessing here) that Gruhen would list it for considerably more. That it appears (from the limited pictures) to be in very good condition and you have both the original case AND the hang-tag could make this a fantastic find for instrument collectors.

One last thing I would definitely recommend is to take a picture of the back. Not only for our curiosity If it's got a rounded Guitarron-style back that would most certainly add to the interest and uniqueness of the instrument. Even if it's a flat back, prospective customers would still want to see it (and the sides, etc) to determine condition.

As before, all the best with the appraisal and sale.

 

[Robyn]

All good suggestions. I do have pics of the sides and back, which are pristine. The back is flat...so it's definitely not a guitarron style. I know from the reading I've done that it precedes the Ernie Ball bass guitars. I'm surprised that I haven't found a number info system, like the Martin company used. That's really what I'd live to find. Maybe George Gruhn will know.

 

[Eilif]

All good suggestions. I do have pics of the sides and back, which are pristine. The back is flat...so it's definitely not a guitarron style. I know from the reading I've done that it precedes the Ernie Ball bass guitars. I'm surprised that I haven't found a number info system, like the Martin company used. That's really what I'd live to find. Maybe George Gruhn will know.

Good to know.

Harptone was a case company before and after they made instruments. It's a long shot, but perhaps inquiring with them might yield some information regarding serial numbers?
About — Harptone

Apparently there's also a facebook group.
Standel, Harptone, and Supreme guitars

 

[Robyn]

Thanks will do!

 

[tambourine]

There is another bass guitar similar to guitarron called guitarra panzona. It is strummed.

 

[foothilla]

Okay folks! I have photos and the info on the giant acoustic bass I was asking about. It's a Harptone fretted 4 string (duh!) with spruce top. I can't tell what the body's made from but it doesn't have much grain, so I expect maybe a plain maple (as the hardwood aspect would give a good sound, right?) It's not Brazilian rosewood or mahogany or an exotic wood as far as I can tell. Model is B-4 and SN# is 2028-80. It's in really good (might I say excellent) condition, hasn't been out of the case since before Pete passed in 1988 (until now). It's been stored in a home with AC and heat so no extreme temps have touched it.
I will add a few pics. I'm really interested in the value of this because of the relative rarity of the insturment combined with the fact that it was used by Pete on many sessions he produced on various artists. I know it was used on BJ Thomas (my husband said he liked the tictac sound). As for how it came to be in Mexico, played in a Mariachi band (when he found it and bought it off the musician), I don't suppose we'll ever know.... But I know for sure (my husband Johnny had to deal with bringing the dang thing back on the plane on his lap!!!!! Obviously the rules about flying with a giant guitar were different back then.... But that's a story for another day.... and oh my....are there stories!!! lol!!!). Thanks for any leads or help you might be able to offer me!

Can I ask what you did with the Harptone B4? I have been playing one of these for the past 20 years. If you're large enough to play these, they are quite special, IMO.

FYI....mahogany back and sides, spruce top, brazillian rosewood bridge and fingerboard.

 

[Vkingcong]

Here's a link to me playing one I recently purchased:

 

[Eilif]

Pretty cool!
What's it sound like fingerstyle?

 

[Vkingcong]

Pretty cool!
What's it sound like fingerstyle?

I think you'd have to definitely put a pickup in it. I think you'd be drowned out by any other instrument playing with you...IMHO

 

[Eilif]

I think you'd have to definitely put a pickup in it. I think you'd be drowned out by any other instrument playing with you...IMHO

That's a shame. In that way it's very much like smaller ABGs.