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Interested in Synths - Not the pedals!

#21
Another budget option, look for any of the Roland XP line like the XP50 used. They were the predecessors of the Fantoms. An example for pricing:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Note in the XP line there was the XP30, the XP30 did not have a sequencer, for what you are asking to do you should avoid that one.

Ken
 
#22
Papa Dangerous said:
This is not a trigger and needs to be played live, so I do not know how well it would work since you are looking for a trigger. But it is a cool little device that people seem to be digging.
\Kaossilator - YouTube
Click to expand...

I'm buying that!!! That sort of thing is perfect for my band for a number of reasons :hyper:

satchmo said:
Roland Juno g would be a budget option. You are most definitely looking for a workstation if you want to be able to alter stuff on the fly, do preset patterns, have built in sounds (as opposed to spending hours designing your own), and have trigger capability.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thanks for helping me narrow down my search. This is getting exciting :)

devilock76 said:
Another budget option, look for any of the Roland XP line like the XP50 used. They were the predecessors of the Fantoms. An example for pricing:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Note in the XP line there was the XP30, the XP30 did not have a sequencer, for what you are asking to do you should avoid that one.

Ken
Click to expand...

I'll keep an eye out for one of those (or something similar) used. Thank you for all your help Ken. You've been amazing!
 
#23
jmattbassplaya said:
I'm buying that!!! That sort of thing is perfect for my band for a number of reasons :hyper:



Awesome! Thanks for helping me narrow down my search. This is getting exciting :)



I'll keep an eye out for one of those (or something similar) used. Thank you for all your help Ken. You've been amazing!
Click to expand...

No problem, before I was a bass player I was a piano player and have gigged as both (keys and bass) for years. Kind of a gear geek, used to write a column for a local ezine on music and synth tech. Happy searching. Oh you might want to cruise the sonicstate.com site, they used to have a classifieds section where you can find a good deal on occasion.

Ken
 
#25
jmattbassplaya said:
What about one of these? A lot different from a workstation, but it seems like a very compact thing that does things that are similar to what I want to be able to do.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Korg KAOSSILATOR PRO - Dynamic Phrase Synth/Loop Recorder: Shop Keyboards & MIDI & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend
Click to expand...

I have yet to try these out. I tried to use the kaos pad 3 today, but could not figure out how to get them to make a sound. There is a def price difference. When I go to work in 9 hours, I will check them out and report back xD
 
#26
Papa Dangerous said:
I have yet to try these out. I tried to use the kaos pad 3 today, but could not figure out how to get them to make a sound. There is a def price difference. When I go to work in 9 hours, I will check them out and report back xD
Click to expand...

Haha, sounds good! Check this out if you got a minute. This is why I'm interested in the Pro: Judonomi - Dubstep (Kaossilator Pro) - YouTube

I'm not big into dubstep, but the fact that you're able to seemingly create this kind of stuff on the spot makes this instrument seem VERY appealing for a guy doing what I'm doing.
 
#27
The kp3 has a hold function so you don't have to hold it down while playing stuff (like your bass), not sure about the kaossilator. The kp3 can playback samples, but it can also process your bass signal if that is what you want. The kaossilator is more like another instrument while the kp3 is more like an effects processor. You might want to consider the moog filtatron app if you have an iPad or iPhone.
 
#29
kester said:
The kp3 has a hold function so you don't have to hold it down while playing stuff (like your bass), not sure about the kaossilator. The kp3 can playback samples, but it can also process your bass signal if that is what you want. The kaossilator is more like another instrument while the kp3 is more like an effects processor. You might want to consider the moog filtatron app if you have an iPad or iPhone.
Click to expand...

This plus keep in mind the synth engine is designed to emulate sunth sounds VA (virtual analog) so good for saw leads, pads, etc, not so good for emulating a piano sound.

Ken
 
#30
Both the KP3 and Kaossilator are pretty cool toys, but the KP3 is the only one I would consider for stage use. The looping function and effects processors are awesome.

The Kaossilator has some really cool sounds, but is extremely difficult to get the right "notes" out of it. So if you want to play a lead line you'd have to be very proficient to do it right every time. The other thing is the Kaossilator doesn't have the ability to save anything, so you have to dial in your stuff every time.
 
#31
Okay, so I accidently deleted everything here LOL
*Warning, I kinda jumped around in writing this, but I still like the information I wrote, so I will leave it - just excuse the redundancy.*
Once again.
It seems like the Kaoss Pad 3 and the Kaossilator Pro are your top choices. They both function using internal and external audio information, but they do it differently. I would assume you want the Kaossilator Pro over the KP3 because the Kaossilator tends to work off of internal sounds, while the KP3 seems to function more on taking external sounds and using those sounds and doing sampling by those means.

This first video does a side by side by Korg Rep. Probably the most informative video on here. (My second favorite is the KP3 Video 1 link... that is just dandy on so many levels... check it out!)

The Kaoss Pad 3 is a great great great tool, it seems more like a loop, record, and layer machine.
You can hook your bass up to it, play a line, and have it looped and recored over and over. You can than layer more bass lines and such and than tweak the overall sound. This is cool if you are doing solo work, but can be too much for a band setting. It also has a vocoder that allows you to speak through it and use those effects. I am currently searching if you can use this device as a live effects box and be able to get certain tones using it without having to record over it and than mess with it.

Video 1: This is absolutely amazing - mostly because this dude is friggin hilarious. I highly recommend looking at this one for a quick preview and a good laugh.
Beardyman using Korg's kaoss Pad 3 - YouTube

Video 2: This is what can be done with just a bass using the loop, recording, and layer feature. bass guitar vs kaoss pad 3 - YouTube

Video 3: This video demonstrates how it can be used in a more simple fashion and gives you an idea of its main functioning abilities. KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 - YouTube

Kaossilator Pro - This is more of an on the spot build from scratch synth processor.

Video 1: This seems like a lot to handle on stage as you play bass, so it seems like a deterrent. However, from the the way I see it, I imagine you making the loop using the synth aspect, and then just trigger it by one of those pads. KORG KAOSSILATOR PRO - YouTube

Video 2: It would appear that you can hook your bass into the Kaossilator Pro and use it for live effects. However, this dude uses his feet, and I do not know what he is doing with them as he uses the effects on some of those instruments. Kala U-Bass Ukulele, Korg Kaossilator Pro, Orange Bass Amp - YouTube

Video 3: This video demonstrates a good use of the bass with the Kaossilator Pro by recording, looping, and using the synth effects that do some live work. Kaossilator Pro + Bass Guitar - YouTube

The Kaossilator is a simpler version of the Kaossilator Pro (Obviously). It seems like it just focuses on the synth sounds, gate arpeggiator (bpm for the gate arp) and a bit of looping.
Kaossilator - YouTube

The possibilities are so great with these items, but in my opinion, I think you would be better off with the Kaossilator Pro, but that is for you to decide cause only you really know what you want to try.

My store has the Kaossilator Pro online for $400.00. In store (plus shipping) it is 360.00 (I do not know shipping price - but I cannot imagine it being $40.) [But we do not have one currently in stock, although we are always able to order them - just as long as Korg is able to send them.) [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

KP3 is 360.00 online and 320.00 (Plus shipping) in store. (There is one in stock).
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Kaossilator is 160.00 online, and 150.00 in the store (Plus shipping)

Good luck with your choices!!!!
 
#32
Papa Dangerous said:
Besides, you could not use a MIDI controller without a computer attached. MIDI does not produce ANY sound whatsoever. It just sends binary code to a computer via MIDI cable. The computer reads the note value, the velocity and when duration the note is held. This is sent as binary code, and the computer interprets the information and produces a sound based on the patch selected in which ever program (most likely Pro Tools since you are using M-Audio/Avid product)
Click to expand...

Papa, you left out a very obvious "thing" that one might control via MIDI controller keyboard - like a rack synth? Many peeps have rack synths like Slim Phatty and therefore use MIDI controllers of all types to control them...

CM
 
#33
Howdy:

I read this with interest because I'm in the same spot, want to be able to "play" some synth at our gigs for extra sound but at the same time I'm a bass player so I want to do that too. And I don't really play keys. I can make some cool stuff come out of my Little Phatty but I'm not a keys player.

I'm getting ready to sell my Moog Little Phatty Stage II and get a Slim Phatty - it's essentially a rack version of the Little Phatty. To play it you need a MIDI controller - keyboard, footboard, sequencer, etc.

Since I need these things anyway I'm just looking to get rid of the space that the Little Phatty and it's 39 keys take up on stage and in studio.

Slim Phatty has arpeggiator sequencer, so like you say you can play the sequence and then thru footpedals you can change the note with your foot to follow along. Of course you can also play some spacey goodness or whatever you need.

Using MIDI sequencer to "play" the Moog is also on my idea palette, but I don't know much about it and it's a little daunting. You play with a sequencer your drummer pretty much needs to play with a click track, right? I'd like to hear how others do this.

Kaossilator, KP3, and Kaossilator Pro. I have looked into these myself and a friend has bor the Kaossilator and KP Pad.

The KP3 doesn't make sounds - it just samples them into loops and allows you to effect the loops.

Kaossilator makes sounds but when you're looping you don't have control over what's playing, they just keep stacking. As others have pointed out, great for ambiance and trippy fx but to play a lead in a certain key you'd have to practice as there's no visual feedback per se that you are playing the right notes.

Kaossilator Pro, as far as I can reckon combines the KP3 with the Kaossilator, giving you the ability to generate sound as well as sample loops and turn them on/off, and effect them. It's pricey, I would love to play with one.

But, before you go that route I strongly suggest you play with a Moog Slim Phatty or Dave Smith Mopho - they are both so Phat sounding and at least the moog I can comment on, there is no limit to the kind of noises you can get (except it won't do polyphonic organ stuff unless you gang multiple units together).

Being analog, it can be a bit nebulous with all the control, but there are presets and I find that though I can't tear up the keyboard, having all that control over the filter and LFOs and all it's very expressive - all you need to be able to do is bang out a cool sounding bassline or lead and work the filter and you sound like a god.

out
 
#34
Colonel Monk said:
Papa, you left out a very obvious "thing" that one might control via MIDI controller keyboard - like a rack synth? Many peeps have rack synths like Slim Phatty and therefore use MIDI controllers of all types to control them...

CM
Click to expand...

Good point, I completely missed that aspect when trying to explain the binary code aspect. However, the newer oxygen 25 cannot be used as MIDI controller for a rack. The rack does not have USB input, and the oxygen series uses USB type 2 for output. He would need another MIDI controller that does MIDI in/out.

Colonel Monk said:
Howdy:

I read this with interest because I'm in the same spot, want to be able to "play" some synth at our gigs for extra sound but at the same time I'm a bass player so I want to do that too. And I don't really play keys. I can make some cool stuff come out of my Little Phatty but I'm not a keys player.

I'm getting ready to sell my Moog Little Phatty Stage II and get a Slim Phatty - it's essentially a rack version of the Little Phatty. To play it you need a MIDI controller - keyboard, footboard, sequencer, etc.

Since I need these things anyway I'm just looking to get rid of the space that the Little Phatty and it's 39 keys take up on stage and in studio.

Slim Phatty has arpeggiator sequencer, so like you say you can play the sequence and then thru footpedals you can change the note with your foot to follow along. Of course you can also play some spacey goodness or whatever you need.

Using MIDI sequencer to "play" the Moog is also on my idea palette, but I don't know much about it and it's a little daunting. You play with a sequencer your drummer pretty much needs to play with a click track, right? I'd like to hear how others do this.

Kaossilator, KP3, and Kaossilator Pro. I have looked into these myself and a friend has bor the Kaossilator and KP Pad.

The KP3 doesn't make sounds - it just samples them into loops and allows you to effect the loops.

Kaossilator makes sounds but when you're looping you don't have control over what's playing, they just keep stacking. As others have pointed out, great for ambiance and trippy fx but to play a lead in a certain key you'd have to practice as there's no visual feedback per se that you are playing the right notes.

Kaossilator Pro, as far as I can reckon combines the KP3 with the Kaossilator, giving you the ability to generate sound as well as sample loops and turn them on/off, and effect them. It's pricey, I would love to play with one.

But, before you go that route I strongly suggest you play with a Moog Slim Phatty or Dave Smith Mopho - they are both so Phat sounding and at least the moog I can comment on, there is no limit to the kind of noises you can get (except it won't do polyphonic organ stuff unless you gang multiple units together).

Being analog, it can be a bit nebulous with all the control, but there are presets and I find that though I can't tear up the keyboard, having all that control over the filter and LFOs and all it's very expressive - all you need to be able to do is bang out a cool sounding bassline or lead and work the filter and you sound like a god.

out
Click to expand...

The Dave Smith is a great little yellow monster. It seems to be as customizable as the Little Phatty, has some real good presets, and its a few hundred less! It is also smaller than the Moog, so that is always something good to add to when concerned about amount/weight of equipment!
 
#35
Well, that's true of older Phattys - but the stage two and Slim have MIDI over USB capability.

Still though, I could not say with certainty that particular controller would do MIDI over USB to the Moog products or any other.

Yeah, I'm Moog-addicted but I've seen others blowing my mind with other desktop synths Dave Smith and Access Virus - if there was only no limits on money and time I would own all.

Really interested to hear how others in the same spot as I and the OP are handling this onstage, and what you play, etc.

Thanks!

CM
 
#37
Hey Papa,

Thanks for your great writeup! I'm really leaning towards the Pro based off a lot of videos I've seen. What I like is the fact that I can create synth and drum loops on the spot and can then turn around and play bass, turn off the loops as needed, add more loops, or just drop the bass altogether and solo on top of whatever loops I have on.

In addition, I'm not much of a keys player, so being able to create synth lines without having to be playing on a traditional keyboard styled synth will make life soooooo much easier for me. Plus my band is highly interactive with our crowd on gigs. I have a feeling this little machine might allow us to get even more interactive with people (aka cute girls :p).
 
#38
jmattbassplaya said:
Hey Papa,

Thanks for your great writeup! I'm really leaning towards the Pro based off a lot of videos I've seen. What I like is the fact that I can create synth and drum loops on the spot and can then turn around and play bass, turn off the loops as needed, add more loops, or just drop the bass altogether and solo on top of whatever loops I have on.

In addition, I'm not much of a keys player, so being able to create synth lines without having to be playing on a traditional keyboard styled synth will make life soooooo much easier for me. Plus my band is highly interactive with our crowd on gigs. I have a feeling this little machine might allow us to get even more interactive with people (aka cute girls :p).
Click to expand...


Not a problem man! In fact, I owe you some thanks! First off, I needed to know more about these for my job (someone came in asked about the KP3 and didn't know it needed external sound sources to make it work, thus I failed the demo to sell it). Secondly, I have discovered Beardyman!! Holy cow pies this dude is friggin amazing!!! I spent most hours of today looking up his videos. He does on the spot beat box extraordinaire improv music plus comedy. I highly recommend looking him up on youtube and checking out his stuff. (Video 1 of the KP3 is him, but he is not the person who uploaded the video in that link). I now have a new idol and I too am considering purchasing one of these little machines if I could ever figure them out, even half as good as Beardyman!
 

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