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Interested in Synths - Not the pedals!

jmattbassplaya

jmattbassplaya

Supporting Member
Jan 13, 2008
11,840
9,850
#1
Hey guys,

My original band is starting to show a lot of promise and I've decided that it would be in the best interest of the band if I purchase a synth. The genre we're playing is a mix of electronica, funk, rock, jazz, hip hop, and jam, so having the ability to jump between bass and synth depending on the song could really help our sound.

My problem is that I have no clue where to start. I'm very unfamiliar with synths as far as brands and models are concerned, and I really don't know what makes a 'good' synth vs. a 'bad' synth. My only real experience with them involves me going into Guitar Center and messing around with what they have on hand for an hour or so.

The main thing I know I need out of a synth is the ability for me to set it to play something and it will play it without me having to hold a key down. I also want something that is very user friendly. I'm not one to get on a computer and tweak things for hours on end, so I want something that I can easily setup and use on the fly and make adjustments to on the spot during a show.

So yeah! If you have any suggestions please send them my way. I'd rather not spend more than $600, but I could be talked into spending $1,000 for something that's very good as is. Also, I'm not against keytars. In some ways I think I'd prefer to have one so that I can move around and still rock out :p

Thanks!
 
#2
jmattbassplaya said:
The main thing I know I need out of a synth is the ability for me to set it to play something and it will play it without me having to hold a key down. I also want something that is very user friendly. I'm not one to get on a computer and tweak things for hours on end, so I want something that I can easily setup and use on the fly and make adjustments to on the spot during a show.
Click to expand...

Explain this part better please. It sounds to me like you are talking about something with a phrase sequencer. But you could mean just a sound where the envelope does not terminate and maybe has an LFO.

In my world view there are three types of synths:

1. True synths, as in you synthesize the sound through real analog or emulated analog circuitry or methods such as FM or additive synthesis. These are used for sound design and certain musical genres have knobs for real time tweaking.

Examples: Moogs, Prophets, Poly Evolver, Andromeda, etc.

2. Stage pianos, typically sampled sounds but are designed with a keys player in mind, quick sound selection buttons and controls but might be more difficult to make tweaks real time to deep layers of sound. Tend to shine at emulations of keyboard instruments like pianos, wurlis, clavs.

Examples: Nord Electro line, Kawai and Roland Stage Pianos, Yamaha S series.

3. Workstations, various levels of workstations but they tend to include the basic three of sounds, controls, and sequencer included. Some include sampling, audio recording and computer interfaces. Wide range of levels here I mean technically the Micron could be called a workstation as could an electribe (but it is more of a groovebox). Typically workstations have large screen displays for dealing with a lot of parameters from the sounds to the sequencer.

Examples: Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom, Korg Triton, etc

I personally have been using a Roland Fantom S (older model) for the past 7 years. No problems, works great for the bit of keys I tend to play here and there. I find Rolands tend to cut through the mix more than some other workstation sounds, particularly Yamaha.

Ken
 
#3
devilock76 said:
Explain this part better please. It sounds to me like you are talking about something with a phrase sequencer. But you could mean just a sound where the envelope does not terminate and maybe has an LFO.
Click to expand...

Hey Ken,

What I meant is that I want the ability to have something preset and with the hit of a key it will start playing and will keep playing the same sequence over and over on end without me having to sit there with my finger on said key. This way I can have the synth do one thing and I can still play bass. I don't need the synth to be doing anything crazy, but maybe an arpeggiated chord over and over. Let me know if that doesn't make sense to you because I'm not even sure if what I'm asking for exists lol. Also, this isn't the main reason I'm looking to get a synth. It's just a feature I'd like to possibly have.
 
#4
jmattbassplaya said:
Hey Ken,

What I meant is that I want the ability to have something preset and with the hit of a key it will start playing and will keep playing the same sequence over and over on end without me having to sit there with my finger on said key. This way I can have the synth do one thing and I can still play bass. I don't need the synth to be doing anything crazy, but maybe an arpeggiated chord over and over. Let me know if that doesn't make sense to you because I'm not even sure if what I'm asking for exists lol. Also, this isn't the main reason I'm looking to get a synth. It's just a feature I'd like to possibly have.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, will you actually be playing the keybed itself at all during a show or do you plan to just trigger sequences. If so then maybe not buy a keyboard but a "groovebox" a sequencer for playing pre programmed phrases or even just a sampler.

Ken
 
#6
ugly_bassplayer said:
I've been dying to try out an MPC live, I know it could work wonders playing live synth,
Click to expand...

That is what I am leaning towards as a suggestion if no one will actually be live playing any parts. Or something similar. If so then Rolands have this feature. It is called RPS so just cull for used gear under Roland and RPS. All of their workstations going back 20 years have been able to do this.

Ken
 
#7
devilock76 said:
Gotcha, will you actually be playing the keybed itself at all during a show or do you plan to just trigger sequences. If so then maybe not buy a keyboard but a "groovebox" a sequencer for playing pre programmed phrases or even just a sampler.

Ken
Click to expand...

I didn't even know grooveboxes existed :D lol.

I definitely plan on playing it a decent amount on gigs. We improv a lot during shows, so I want something I can improv on and adjust on the fly.

Our band leader currently has the MicroKorg, and while he's able to play along with us during jams he definitely seems limited by what he can do because of how weird it can be to adjust in real time at a gig. I want to avoid that problem and be able to jump between laying down a fat synth bassline and doing some more atmospheric sounds and textures depending on where the jam goes.

Again, I hope this makes sense to you because I really don't know what I'm talking about lol.
 
#9
I would consider a MIDI controller - my Yamaha keyboard does the job nicely - a cheap 1-channel MIDI-USB adapter, a laptop and a plethora of synth programs. I have a Mac, so my options are different. I have the following, all of which I enjoy:

Arturia CS-80V (Yamaha CS-80)
Oddity (ARP Odyssey)
Sonicproject OP-X (Oberheim OB-X; my personal favorite)
and I think I have one for a Roland Juno

I'm looking for a VST for the ARP Pro Soloist, to bring out my inner Tony Banks (think "Firth of Fifth," because I did; it's my favorite song)

If you have a way to run that laptop live, go for that solution. I haven't played live in a while, so I don't have that problem. It won't be perfect, but for someone who is just starting to incorporate synthesizers into their live sound, it's a relatively cheap and fairly easy solution.

It then occurred to me that you did mention that you didn't want to tweak on a computer. Sadly, that sort of defeats the whole idea. Those VSTs are modeled after vintage analog synthesizers, and they involve a whole heap of tweaking. It's probably your best bet, as some of them (I'm thinking the OP-X here) allow you to save your settings, thereby minimizing the tweaking. Actually, the OP-X, which involves another program called VFX, in order to run on my Mac, has some really good presets, which may suit your tastes.
 
#10
jmattbassplaya said:
I didn't even know grooveboxes existed :D lol.

I definitely plan on playing it a decent amount on gigs. We improv a lot during shows, so I want something I can improv on and adjust on the fly.

Our band leader currently has the MicroKorg, and while he's able to play along with us during jams he definitely seems limited by what he can do because of how weird it can be to adjust in real time at a gig. I want to avoid that problem and be able to jump between laying down a fat synth bassline and doing some more atmospheric sounds and textures depending on where the jam goes.

Again, I hope this makes sense to you because I really don't know what I'm talking about lol.
Click to expand...

Then I lean towards any Roland workstation over the past 20 years. Just make sure it has the RPS feature and you should be golden.

I don't just suggest Roland because that is what I play. I just know they can do this and since you need a built in sequencer like a Workstation you really have the big three to choose from, Korg, Yamaha and Roland. Yes there are others but I am not trying to delve into esoteric keyboard gear lore.

Yamaha's always disappear in the mix live. They are killer for a studio as they offer just an amazing sound palette, especially the Motif series but just don't cut it live like Roland. I have never played a Yamaha that can trigger a sequence from a keybed press (pressing a note).

Korg's cut it like Roland but Korg's shine in their song writing and sequencing workflow IMO. Korg's don't have a note on RPS style sequencer either though. What they do have is combi mode. Basically it is a group of several sound patches that you can apply custom appregiations and rhythm patterns to. But typically it is the same pattern across the range of keys and the key press changes the key of the progression accordingly.

Rolands have RPS (real time phrase/pattern sequencing). Pretty much every roland workstation or groovebox has it. On top of that live they really shine. I used to dislike roland till I owned one of their better workstations. What you are describing in pattern triggering has been a Roland standard for many years. I can only think of one other company that did anything like that and that was GEM on their Equinox keyboard. Good luck finding one of those, great keyboards but a flaky OS. I owned one before I bought the Roland.

Ken
 
#11
I see others suggesting computers. Sans a road crew, even though I am a computer geek I am still reluctant to bring a computer on stage most of the time. Yes I use an android tab for setlists and yes I use a linux netbook to dj but that is about it. Just too much that can go wrong to interrupt a set. Dedicated hardware is the only way to go with keys unless you bring your own tech to a show.

Ken
 
#13
I kind of skimmed through this and it seems like you are looking for a trigger.
Pushing a pad and have a loop play over and over. For that I would check out some Akai stuff such as the MPC. If you are interested in some crazy, intense stuff, checkout the Launch pad by Ableton.

If you are looking for an analog synth - choosing a soundwave, setting up filters and envelopes, oscillators, and the such, than I recommend Dave Smith Mopho. Its a monophonic synth (like Moog, but cheaper). Monophonic plays one note at a time, verse polyphonic which plays many notes (like a chord). These have preset patches (Mopho, Little Phatty, Voyager) but can be tweaked every bit.

There is also digital synths that are pretty much preset patches that can be mildly tweaked, but they are not really fully original since they were preloaded. A digital synth can be found in keyboard such as the Roland Juno Gi. It has piano, electric piano, organ, brass, strings, choir, and synth section. Lots of preset sounds that can be edited by means of chorus, pan, reverb etc.


For setting up a loop and having it triggered by single pad, but want to use analog synth at the same time can be accomplished. You can get an audio interface that hooks up to the computer, hook up the analog synth, record what you want played, than have it uploaded to a trigger (such as the mpc). Once loaded onto the MPC than there is no need to bring a computer to the show, just the MPC which has the information stored on it.
- I am pretty sure this is how it works... I never did it personally, but I sell the equipment to do these types of things lol
 
#15
The oxygen does not have pads. I believe it just has sliders and knobs. Its not a bad gift considering that it does for at least 120 bucks. Plus, it is M Audio, which is usually a hit or miss especially with their lower end MIDI controllers.
 
#16
Besides, you could not use a MIDI controller without a computer attached. MIDI does not produce ANY sound whatsoever. It just sends binary code to a computer via MIDI cable. The computer reads the note value, the velocity and when duration the note is held. This is sent as binary code, and the computer interprets the information and produces a sound based on the patch selected in which ever program (most likely Pro Tools since you are using M-Audio/Avid product)

EDIT: It actually does not use a MIDI cable, it uses USB type 2 to connect to a computer, which essentially is going to replace MIDI at some point I imagine.


EDIT 2: LOL it is a keyboard that makes no sound, just sends information to a computer, but the computer produces sound based on the aforementioned information. You can choose whatever instrument you want and than layer it all using a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation - garage band, cubase, sonor, pro tools). This can than be used to make an entire song just using that 25 note keyboard. Its really helpful if you are into that style of music production. Otherwise you are using a computer keyboard, and that is not fun.
 
#20
jmattbassplaya said:
I own one of these (got it as a gift with a keyboard I bought). Could I use this as a trigger? M-Audio Oxygen 25 - USB MIDI Controller: Shop Keyboards & MIDI & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend
Click to expand...

Yes, well sort of, as long as you can trigger the sequencer it is conencted to with a note on message you can do what you have described in the original post and follow up. That will connect to a computer or a standalone via usb or midi respectively.

Correction, just noticed the latest Oxygen's only have USB, not USB and a MIDI port. They used to have both, I had one of the first generation many years ago.

Ken
 

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