Interesting Call with EBMM...

[92aceshigh]

Thank you. EXACTLY what I've stated repeatedly. Those of you with terrible reading comprehension and logic skills, feel free to keep fabricating scenarios and personal attacks.

Dude, I've just read through the whole thread again and I cannot work out what you're getting so bent out of shape about. Literally no-one, at any point during this thread, claims that EBMM owns Praxis. A few of us were surprised to learn that SBMM is a licensed 3rd-party brand rather than a subsidiary, but that isn't really shocking given that:
a) neither EBMM nor SBMM really make their relationship clear,
b) such a precedent exists with Fender/Squier
and c) the similarities in naming conventions between the brands suggest a very tight relationship.
In places you're arguing with people who are arguing the same side as you. Sorry to say it, but the only one here fabricating scenarios is you.

 

[92aceshigh]

At the end of the day, this thread isn't about the business relationship between EBMM and SBMM.
It's about how confusing the Music Man branding is. And I think that's something we can all agree on

 

[B-Mac]

I am wondering who you spoke with since we don't have a female in customer service at the moment. I'm guessing maybe it was our new receptionist? There's a lot to learn for her especially since she is unfamiliar with musical instruments!

I couldn't make it through all 8 pages but we license our designs to Praxis.

@Scott Ball, Could you explain the business model to us please?
I’d really like to hear this explained at some ‘official’ level.

And the hierarchy of the brands and models and origin of manufacturers please

Thanks

 

[chris_b]

Ernie Ball (Roland Sherwood Ball) had three sons Sherwood, David, Sterling and a daughter Nova,

How did "David" get on list?

 

[LBS-bass]

Dude, I've just read through the whole thread again and I cannot work out what you're getting so bent out of shape about. Literally no-one, at any point during this thread, claims that EBMM owns Praxis. A few of us were surprised to learn that SBMM is a licensed 3rd-party brand rather than a subsidiary, but that isn't really shocking given that:
a) neither EBMM nor SBMM really make their relationship clear,
b) such a precedent exists with Fender/Squier
and c) the similarities in naming conventions between the brands suggest a very tight relationship.
In places you're arguing with people who are arguing the same side as you. Sorry to say it, but the only one here fabricating scenarios is you.

He’s just trolling. The link I posted was clear to state that it’s a licensing agreement. He wants to disagree and agree with me at the same time. Not worth my effort.

 

[maplenecked]

Still have yet to see a substantial “so what” from anyone who points out that SBMM is not owned by EBMM

 

[92aceshigh]

Could you explain the business model to us please?

SBMM benefit because they get a veneer of "authenticity" by virtue of association with the EBMM brand.
EBMM benefit because they get praised for having a high quality line of affordable instruments, which can act as a gateway to the more expensive US-made models.
I would love to hear the official explanation for the naming decision though. Did EBMM suggest the name "Sterling by Music Man", or was that Praxis' choice?

 

[Maxdusty]

How did "David" get on list?

It's listed on his biography. Sherwood and David are musicians, Nova an actress, Sterling of course is CEO of Ernie Ball. Pretty talented family.

 

[LBS-bass]

SBMM benefit because they get a veneer of "authenticity" by virtue of association with the EBMM brand.
EBMM benefit because they get praised for having a high quality line of affordable instruments, which can act as a gateway to the more expensive US-made models.
I would love to hear the official explanation for the naming decision though. Did EBMM suggest the name "Sterling by Music Man", or was that Praxis' choice?

I think the explanation is here in a thread somewhere. I don’t recall all the details though. I believe it’s in a thread that Scott participated in but I don’t recall which one. Something about a hasty decision in a business meeting.

 

[92aceshigh]

I think the explanation is here in a thread somewhere. I don’t recall all the details though. I believe it’s in a thread that Scott participated in but I don’t recall which one. Something about a hasty decision in a business meeting.

My god this just gets better and better

 

[LBS-bass]

My god this just gets better and better

Don't quote me, it's just a recollection. But you might find it if you search Scott's posts. I remember seeing it a few months back.

 

[Geri O]

This thread be like...

@Scott Ball ....

You made a very nice Stingray SR5 in 2011 that came into my possession just before Christmas. One of the nicest basses I’ve ever laid hands on.

You can make a line of sewing machines and call them the Hindenburg for all I care.

We’re good....

 

[Cardsfan_69]

I am wondering who you spoke with since we don't have a female in customer service at the moment. I'm guessing maybe it was our new receptionist? There's a lot to learn for her especially since she is unfamiliar with musical instruments!

I couldn't make it through all 8 pages but we license our designs to Praxis.

Sure, probably receptionist. Either way the conversation happened as stated and 8 pages of bassists voicing their frustration and confusion should be illustrative of the problem. Love the EBMM products but man what a disaster the naming game has become.

 

[maplenecked]

Sure, probably receptionist. Either way the conversation happened as stated and 8 pages of bassists voicing their frustration and confusion should be illustrative of the problem. Love the EBMM products but man what a disaster the naming game has become.

So dramatic lol

 

[Cardsfan_69]

So dramatic lol

View attachment 3410878

How so? Wasn't trying to be dramatic. Just stating my point that even if it's "just a receptionist" she was the voice of the company when I called and she was confused. I fully understand the business relationship and the products offered by each. This thread clearly shows many don't. And there's a tremendous amount of bad info out there and maybe even some deceptive used bass sales or trades.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Below. Quality issues were the main reason the OLP line was discontinued. Quality is very much a non-issue for SBMM instruments, especially the Ray34



As seen above, the latest incarnation of the Ray34/35 aims to be faithful to the EBMM ethos of top quality materials, hardware, electronics, fit and finish. In my experience of owning and playing a '93 EBMM and a 2012 Ray34, that aim is achieved. If it were any other way I doubt Mr. Ball would sanction (through licensing, ownership, direction or any other means) the use of the "StingRay" moniker.



Yes.

Thanks. Sometimes I toy with the idea of an MM of some sort. Something else would need to go as I'm two basses over easy storage. And two acoustic guitars over...

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Technically below in terms of parts and quality - the Sterling SUB is much closer to the sound, quality and feel of a true Stingray. Also the OLPs are mostly passive (there's one OLP version that's active from my understanding) but they're decent and often make good mod platforms.


If you can find that other SUB, the US made EBMM SUB for a good price (around $300 or so) - grab it! It's essentially an EBMM Stingray Classic but with budget finish. Pretty much the same parts, slight difference on the bridge logo, body wood is different but same pickups, same quality work made in the same factory - it is a true blue Musicman. There's both a passive and active version of these.
I bought mine for $160 - which would have been a decent used price for a Sterling SUB bass except for it wasn't a Sterling SUB but an EBMM SUB! In this case, the confusion over the different models worked in my favor.

The headstock of these SUBs look like this:-
View attachment 3410270

From memory Murray's was active and was his rehearsal room noodler.

 

[OllyW]

OK, they licensed the logo. So what? I can license a Ferrari logo and tattoo it on my forehead.

On the website they're never called StingRay, and in any case this does nothing to disprove the FACT that Praxis is not Ernie Ball Music Man and is not owned by Ernie Ball Music Man or distributed by the same distributors, and does not use any parts made my Ernie Ball Music Man.

Again, if you can *prove* otherwise please do.

I'm not sure why you are getting so angry about this, I was only highlighting another area of confusion with the names used by SBMM for their range of products which relates directly to the concerns raised in the first post in this thread. I've made no claims about the ownership of the company so why do I need to prove anything?

Oh, and you are wrong, they are called StingRay on the SBMM website.

The StingRay "Ray4" bass features a 9v active preamp, low noise humbucking pickups and a fully adjustable heavy duty bridge

The Sterling by Music Man StingRay "Ray34" features an all-new roasted maple neck, a 3-band active preamp, a modern contoured body and a bridge modeled after the iconic Ernie Ball Music Man StingRay.

 

[OllyW]

So if one were to take sandpaper and remove the "SUB Series", it'll pretty much look like the headstock of Sterling's more expensive Rays.

I don't think you even need to risk damaging the headstock using sandpaper...

LOL!
Since they didn’t listen to me about clear coating the face of the headstock, over the logo, you’ll find that you can remove any part of the logo with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol and a Q-tip.
No need to sand...

 

[B-Mac]