Interference/Noise on Instrument Tracks! Do I Need a Power Conditioner, or... ?

[Obese Chess]

Have you tried anything we told you in your last thread?

This is deeply embarrassing, but - I completely forgot I had made another thread about this as recently as I had, and then went back through it after I posted the sound clip in here. I thought I posted that a few years ago, before I moved into this spot. I've had a lot going on, man.

Sounds EXACTLY like the kind of noise I used to get running multiple digital/DSP pedals from cheap daisy-chained 9V adapters that were not really capable of delivering the required current. Right now my pedal-board 'rule' is that digital/DSP-based pedals get a dedicated high quality high current supply and the daisy-chained power is only then used for low current analogue pedals. This does not necessarily mean that digital and analogue cannot be daisy-chained, but on any one power line there can only ever be one digital/high-current/DSP-based pedal. Since hooking up that way I have not had any noise issues of that type. I have also installed ferrite line filters/chokes on the supply lines. You don't cut the cable, simply clip into a loop close to the pedal:
View attachment 5158244

I am using isolated power supplies with sufficient currents, but the ferrite line filter is an interesting idea.

just to double-check: when you move the mouse, you don't take both hands off your strings, right? and run two pickups on full? if anything here is 'no', expect some noise

those two are bus-powered interfaces, bus power is a common source of noise, especially when used with usb3 ports on your computer. a ferrite bead on the wire between the computer and audio interface might help. but it's better to avoid bus-powered interfaces.

1. Both pickups are on full, but no, one hand on the bass. Doesn't seem to impact things.

2. This is helpful - I believe there is a way to run the iD4 without bus power, so I will try that.

The monitor idea suggested by other folks is also a good one, I will try that as well.

And also, as @themickster said, go through the last thread I made about this exact thing and try that stuff as well. Oops.

 

[themickster]

I've had a lot going on, man.

Fair enough. We're good.

 

[220_Hz]

Try this?

Broughton BBA

 

[Obese Chess]

Try this?

Broughton BBA

What would this do for me in this context, and how would it do that differently than, say, a DI box (I am aware that the product linked is not a DI box)?

 

[220_Hz]

What would this do for me in this context, and how would it do that differently than, say, a DI box (I am aware that the product linked is not a DI box)?

It filters out unwanted subsonic and infrasonic sound so it could possibly be a benefit in trying to get rid of electrical interference noise. I’m not totally sure though

 

[Hasty]

I'm chasing it down because I don't want to have to dick around with getting another surge protector down the road, basically - I'd rather have everything I need done in one go rather than disconnecting/unplugging stuff, moving the desk away from the wall, etc etc.

I am running this into Reaper but the following is with no VSTs at all - VSTs do make it worse. I will be moving over to Logic when I get the Mac Mini set up.

The nice thing about a Mac mini is that you can just plug it in somewhere, plug in your interface, and test it with both Reaper and Garage Band. If you hear the noise in Reaper but not in Garage Band then you've saved yourself lots of time chasing down some potential electrical issue because you've likely identified Reaper as the culprit. Doesn't take a lot of effort to hook one up... just a power cable, HDMI cable, and the interface.

 

[Obese Chess]

It filters out unwanted subsonic and infrasonic sound so it could possibly be a benefit in trying to get rid of electrical interference noise. I’m not totally sure though

Got it - I have a buffer built in to my tuner pedal, as far as I am aware, so I was curious as to how this was different. I should have perhaps specified that. My understanding is that Josh at Broughton is pretty good at answering questions so I may pick his brain a bit - again, assuming a new computer and monitor don't fix the problem, which at this point it seems like they might. Thanks!

 

[KeepItMoving]

Do you have, or could you borrow, a little portable recorder, like a Tascam/Zoom/Sony handheld, or really any kind of standalone recording device with a line input? You could run the instruments/pedals into that and see if the problem is still there, which would help isolate the source.

 

[Obese Chess]

Do you have, or could you borrow, a little portable recorder, like a Tascam/Zoom/Sony handheld, or really any kind of standalone recording device with a line input? You could run the instruments/pedals into that and see if the problem is still there, which would help isolate the source.

I think I might have an old Zoom kicking around somewhere, if not I'm sure someone in my band has one.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Your house wiring might be substandard. There may be two power lines close to each other in the wall without proper shielding. There could be something plugged in on the other side of the wall causing interference on that circuit. There's a zillion things that might be wrong (and sealed underneath wallboard). Start by plugging into a different wall circuit and hope it's not on the same branch as the circuit causing noise.

 

[Jtown690]

Bruh, is your Air conditioner running?

 

[Jimmyll]

I'm chasing the exact same noise, it's on the serial bus. You hear the fluctuation moving the mouse because it's on that bus. The noise comes back in from the outputs of your connected devices, in your case that may be just your interface if that's the only audio/USB thing connected.

I get other buzzes from my bass that are unrelated. I got this noise with the bass signal chain fully off and disabled.

The biggest reduction for me came from replacing some long unbalanced audio cables with balanced on a drum module that is USB connected. That device is dead silent now. I have a ferrite filter on that (long) USB cable but it didn't help. I still get it a bit from two others that have short runs but no balanced outputs so I can't switch to balanced. Unplugging the USB cables from each will eliminate it. All of them are capable of sending audio over USB. My interface is not bus powered and does not have the noise.

I'm going to try replacing those two USB cables with "data only" cables and see if that resolves, but a lot of devices rely on that power to determine if they are connected or not so I'm also searching for some high quality cables.

 

[Deleted member 368008]

It should be said that one of my studio monitors produced themselves that "bumble bee" noise (reminiscent of whenever a cell phone rings in proximity) ever so faintly. They were Tannoys not low-end not high-end but mid.... not the cheapest and not the most pricey. Mid somewhere.

Now, that noise disappeared as fast as I closed the venetian blinds on the window. They're made of light metal. Aluminium methinks. 300 meters in straight line outside, is a truckload of masts placed on top of a building, for 3G, 5G, mobile phones, "cable" TV, surveillance, whatnot. Count on one thing: The air is getting polluted with all this more and more, and not less.

 

[Katoosie]

Before spending money on anything, I would simply try to eliminate as many possible offenders as you can.

That is, make it simple - bass, cable, interface, computer, DAW without plugins. Make sure those are ok, then proceed.

I have what people here on TalkBass call "dirty power" and the only thing that solved my issue where I live at was to either run everything off batteries without using the wall sockets, OR using a completely bus powered interface powered off a USB3 into my iMac (I still do not understand why that works since the iMac itself is drawing power from the "dirty power" at the wall socket, must be something with how it handles power *shrug*).

Anyway...
Your recording sounds EXACTLY like the noise I get when I turn my body and my bass towards my iMac with my Dingwall basses' pickups. It picks up the interference from the retina screen so I tend to angle myself away from the screen and boom, 0 noise then.

If you have dimmable lights, have them either on 100% or totally off. Turn off the AC. Turn off whatever other stuff you might not need and DO NOT spend the money on doodads until you have eliminated all of the other on the spot possibilities. If you are going to be using your Mac mini, hook everything up into it and see what's up.

People telling you to buy a ferrite bead and other stuff mean well, but at the end of the day it is you who will have to deal with either losing money or having to deal with returns (I have been down this rabbit hole from shielding, to buying power conditioners, ferrite beads and so on).

 

[Katoosie]

It should be said that one of my studio monitors produced themselves that "bumble bee" noise (reminiscent of whenever a cell phone rings in proximity) ever so faintly. They were Tannoys not low-end not high-end but mid.... not the cheapest and not the most pricey. Mid somewhere.

Now, that noise disappeared as fast as I closed the venetian blinds on the window. They're made of light metal. Aluminium methinks. 300 meters in straight line outside, is a truckload of masts placed on top of a building, for 3G, 5G, mobile phones, "cable" TV, surveillance, whatnot. Count on one thing: The air is getting polluted with all this more and more, and not less.

Yeah, all the signals from everything around just run into eachother and it makes a mess. How often do I get interference/signal loss on my wireless headphones in the city in a busy area surrounded by other people doing the same...

Pickups on guitars are sensitive as heck and they tend to pick up more than you'd think. If you happen to live in a very signal busy area with a bunch of towers transmitting alien transmissions all around, it only gets worse. Try playing a bass with a piezo pickup a train station and tell me how that goes

 

[Obese Chess]

Your house wiring might be substandard. There may be two power lines close to each other in the wall without proper shielding. There could be something plugged in on the other side of the wall causing interference on that circuit. There's a zillion things that might be wrong (and sealed underneath wallboard). Start by plugging into a different wall circuit and hope it's not on the same branch as the circuit causing noise.

Bruh, is your Air conditioner running?

40+ year old apartment in Portland, OR - no air conditioner and almost certainly substandard wiring.

I'm chasing the exact same noise, it's on the serial bus. You hear the fluctuation moving the mouse because it's on that bus. The noise comes back in from the outputs of your connected devices, in your case that may be just your interface if that's the only audio/USB thing connected.

I get other buzzes from my bass that are unrelated. I got this noise with the bass signal chain fully off and disabled.

The biggest reduction for me came from replacing some long unbalanced audio cables with balanced on a drum module that is USB connected. That device is dead silent now. I have a ferrite filter on that (long) USB cable but it didn't help. I still get it a bit from two others that have short runs but no balanced outputs so I can't switch to balanced. Unplugging the USB cables from each will eliminate it. All of them are capable of sending audio over USB. My interface is not bus powered and does not have the noise.

I'm going to try replacing those two USB cables with "data only" cables and see if that resolves, but a lot of devices rely on that power to determine if they are connected or not so I'm also searching for some high quality cables.

This actually is helpful. The iD4 is only bus powered (the next model up in their lineup is not bus powered) but given that, again, it's plugged into a decade-plus-old gaming PC with all kinds of other garbage running off it, I'm feeling good about the idea that just upgrading the computer will mitigate the issue.

Thanks again to everyone for all the insight. I'll report back once things are hooked up properly.

 

[KeepItMoving]

This actually is helpful. The iD4 is only bus powered (the next model up in their lineup is not bus powered) but given that, again, it's plugged into a decade-plus-old gaming PC with all kinds of other garbage running off it, I'm feeling good about the idea that just upgrading the computer will mitigate the issue.

Thanks again to everyone for all the insight. I'll report back once things are hooked up properly.

Yeah, there's a very good chance what you're hearing is digital-related from the computer; the test with the portable recorder would confirm that. Avoiding wireless stuff in your new setup would be a good strategy for minimizing RF radiation....like, wired mouse, Ethernet rather than Wi-Fi, no Bluetooth, etc. Hope the transition is smooth and sonically pure!

 

[Deleted member 368008]

Copper shield your room, all walls, and earth it, and you'll have a pretty good faraday cage. You may even put wallpaper on top of it (if it ever will stick to it). Don't try to pick up radio on it, or calls on your cell phone though...it all will turn more silent than 5 Finns in a sauna.

 

[Obese Chess]

In case anyone was curious, has this issue in the future and finds this issue on google, etc, it was indeed some combination of the PC (likely the fact that it was a rickety old gaming PC full of LED lights running off the same power supply as the USB Bus powering the interface, which is what I think the issue was) or the monitor. Having since switched to an M2 Mac Mini with a newer monitor, I have exactly zero noise or interference unless I run through my full pedalboard and absolutely dime the gain on everything.

 

[Krisfield]

If you’re using a DSP based effects unit, you might need a Line Isolation DI box like the Pinstripe DISO+ or Walrus Audio Canvas. I have just upgraded my recording rig and to my dismay, found noise occurring between my amp modeller and my USB audio interface. I’m also going to upgrade my patch cables as well.

Hi Folks,

I've posted a bit about this issue before but I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it.

I am currently upgrading my entire setup - I've gone from recording on my old gaming PC to recording with a Mac Mini (haven't set it up yet). Everywhere I have lived, I have gotten tons of interference when recording with this PC. I imagine the RGB fans and other adjacent garbage aren't helping matters, but I want it to be as clean as possible. I currently live in a one bedroom apartment built in the eighties. I cannot imagine that it was constructed with high-quality isolated circuits, if that's even the issue.

When I say interference, I mean that there is noise - high pitched electrical whining, static, crackling, etc - in my tracks. The higher I turn the input gain up, the more there is. This can be gated if I use a noise gate, either physical or plugin, but the actual recording itself - ie everything that gets past the gate - still has that interference. It gets worse if I add distortion or other effects, whether I do that manually with a pedal or with plugins. It happens on every instrument I own, even meticulously-shielded custom instruments.

Perhaps of note, it does NOT happen when recording vocals through a condenser microphone no matter how high I turn the input gain up. I have no problems when listening to loud music on any other device in the apartment, and I don't recall the last time I got interference through the speakers, though now I'm scratching my head and might try diming the volume when I get home.

So, right now I have everything plugged into a standard surge protector.

Will plugging into something with RF/EM shielding like the Furman SS6B help matters?

Or do I need to bite the bullet and spend a lot more on something like the the Black Lion PG-P?

OR: am I describing an entirely different problem that has to be solved in a different way?

Thanks!