Double Bass Into the great unknown -- Acoustic sound magic inside a Venue...

[Don Hergert]

I've recently been struck by how huge of a difference location inside a venue makes in the sound of a double bass. In a few practicing, jamming and stage situations I've begun to notice how subtle differences in various locations inside the same venue can make a huge difference in volume, clarity and tone. Again, I'm talking about the same venues, just different locations inside those venues. The venues may be generally thought of as relatively dead or relatively live, but being in a different location inside that venue can bring about a noticeable improvement or degradation in how the double bass sounds.

For me, the best example of this was last week as I was at a festival in a large -- 400 seat capacity -- nearly empty low-ceiling meeting hall with about 20 other musicians and their instruments, having a group picture taken of us all... This room was used for jamming, workshops and as a backup stage in case of bad weather. Initially we were in the middle of the hall and the sound was dead, like a vacuum had sucked all the sound away...

Then the photographer had us all move with our backs close to a wall where reflective lighting would improve his shots. Within 2 to 3 feet of that wall, the sound was crazy alive -- I could hear my double bass with remarkable volume and clarity that I had not experienced in the rest of the room.

I've experimented around my house and found the same thing. Playing close and with the back of my double bass to a completely unoccluded wall sounded like I was playing into a microphone and sound system.

Most of my playing double bass is in jams without amps or mics, and generally I do not get complaints about volume, tone or clarity. But it isn't unusual for me to not hear myself while playing as well as I would like to. Interestingly about a year ago in a jam inside an enclosed patio I situated myself against a back wall and I recall that I had remarkable volume that I could hear myself -- I now think this was that unoccluded wall effect.

Venues don't always provide the ability to move around and select where we want to play, but playing with my back against an unoccluded wall -- or in a corner of two such walls -- is now my most desired location.

Have others here found this to be true???

 

[Ed S]

I haven't really experienced this too much playing gigs or jams, but in one past jam in a small space, I loved playing backed into a corner projecting out into a largish room. Another jam, I stopped going to, in large part because it was impossible to hear in that long, narrow room will all hard surfaces.

And I've said before that our band often practices on one bandmate's enclosed porch. She redid the porch, laying down a tile floor over an open crawl space. The corner of that porch is my FAVORITE place to play! I really have to be careful to not overplay and drown others out, it sounds so good!

 

[41 Hz]

I've read about something similar before related to bass amp placement. I believe it's called 'boundary loading/reinforcement'. Against a wall gives a boost to bass frequencies - corners even more so.
On a related note a great experiment to do is to play a low frequency sine wave (50Hz say) through speakers, hi-fi ones will do. Then move your head around in the space, high/low, walk around. You'll find that the sound disappears in some locations and in others it feels like your head will explode! This is more pronounced in squarer rooms. Congratulations you've discovered room modes! - the bass can be quiet or loud depending on where your ears are.
It just goes to show how much knowing these little tricks can be the difference between having a great gig or a terrible one regards sound, and of course the value of TalkBass and sharing experiences.

 

[Sam Reese]

Comb filtering, acoustic nodes...physics

 

[Kenan]

Yes, I agree that this is absolutely true. I play many gigs fully acoustic. Floor coupling is an additional factor. A hollow wooden floor will impart much more volume than a concrete slab, for example.

 

[ctrlzjones]

I've recently been struck by how huge of a difference location inside a venue makes in the sound of a double bass. In a few practicing, jamming and stage situations I've begun to notice how subtle differences in various locations inside the same venue can make a huge difference in volume, clarity and tone. Again, I'm talking about the same venues, just different locations inside those venues. The venues may be generally thought of as relatively dead or relatively live, but being in a different location inside that venue can bring about a noticeable improvement or degradation in how the double bass sounds.

For me, the best example of this was last week as I was at a festival in a large -- 400 seat capacity -- nearly empty low-ceiling meeting hall with about 20 other musicians and their instruments, having a group picture taken of us all... This room was used for jamming, workshops and as a backup stage in case of bad weather. Initially we were in the middle of the hall and the sound was dead, like a vacuum had sucked all the sound away...

Then the photographer had us all move with our backs close to a wall where reflective lighting would improve his shots. Within 2 to 3 feet of that wall, the sound was crazy alive -- I could hear my double bass with remarkable volume and clarity that I had not experienced in the rest of the room.

I've experimented around my house and found the same thing. Playing close and with the back of my double bass to a completely unoccluded wall sounded like I was playing into a microphone and sound system.

Most of my playing double bass is in jams without amps or mics, and generally I do not get complaints about volume, tone or clarity. But it isn't unusual for me to not hear myself while playing as well as I would like to. Interestingly about a year ago in a jam inside an enclosed patio I situated myself against a back wall and I recall that I had remarkable volume that I could hear myself -- I now think this was that unoccluded wall effect.

Venues don't always provide the ability to move around and select where we want to play, but playing with my back against an unoccluded wall -- or in a corner of two such walls -- is now my most desired location.

Have others here found this to be true???

 

[Ketbass]

I've recently been struck by how huge of a difference location inside a venue makes in the sound of a double bass. In a few practicing, jamming and stage situations I've begun to notice how subtle differences in various locations inside the same venue can make a huge difference in volume, clarity and tone. Again, I'm talking about the same venues, just different locations inside those venues. The venues may be generally thought of as relatively dead or relatively live, but being in a different location inside that venue can bring about a noticeable improvement or degradation in how the double bass sounds.

For me, the best example of this was last week as I was at a festival in a large -- 400 seat capacity -- nearly empty low-ceiling meeting hall with about 20 other musicians and their instruments, having a group picture taken of us all... This room was used for jamming, workshops and as a backup stage in case of bad weather. Initially we were in the middle of the hall and the sound was dead, like a vacuum had sucked all the sound away...

Then the photographer had us all move with our backs close to a wall where reflective lighting would improve his shots. Within 2 to 3 feet of that wall, the sound was crazy alive -- I could hear my double bass with remarkable volume and clarity that I had not experienced in the rest of the room.

I've experimented around my house and found the same thing. Playing close and with the back of my double bass to a completely unoccluded wall sounded like I was playing into a microphone and sound system.

Most of my playing double bass is in jams without amps or mics, and generally I do not get complaints about volume, tone or clarity. But it isn't unusual for me to not hear myself while playing as well as I would like to. Interestingly about a year ago in a jam inside an enclosed patio I situated myself against a back wall and I recall that I had remarkable volume that I could hear myself -- I now think this was that unoccluded wall effect.

Venues don't always provide the ability to move around and select where we want to play, but playing with my back against an unoccluded wall -- or in a corner of two such walls -- is now my most desired location.

Have others here found this to be true???

As far as the venue, we always play in the same place so it’s hard to know but likely a yes. At home, if you want to reallly hear your bass, play in front of a sliding glass door; facing it. The hard surface of the glass does wonders to amplify the bass. Works well for cello too

 

[AGCurry]

Of course it's a thing. We hear reflections!

 

[logdrum]

I depend on amplification for live work - Very few gigs that I am doing without amplification so I am not going to seek out preferred spots


I continue to amplify myself even while practicing because I record myself and B my sound also means I use some effects ( not just reverb or delay but complicated things like Bit Crushers and Glitch )

But some elemental practive specially arco needs to be done unaplified. I would actually prefer a large open room with high ceiling rather than a wall. It forces one to project . I think a wall or tighter spaces doesn't require you to project and work on volume and tone production

 

[Bruce Calin]

I mentioned in another thread about how in the all- acoustic days before amps, there was common knowledge among bassists about the acoustics of various rooms and halls where we played. Where to locate on bandstands for maximum projection and hearing was also valuable information. With college students I teach who have to do juries in the college concert hall, I always have them play there beforehand so they are aware of how different it is from a practice room.

 

[Clyde Stats]

On a visit to Havana several years ago (when you could still go) I noticed bass players playing on the street always played unamplified backed into a corner. There was never any problem hearing them.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I've recently been struck by how huge of a difference location inside a venue makes in the sound of a double bass. In a few practicing, jamming and stage situations I've begun to notice how subtle differences in various locations inside the same venue can make a huge difference in volume, clarity and tone. Again, I'm talking about the same venues, just different locations inside those venues. The venues may be generally thought of as relatively dead or relatively live, but being in a different location inside that venue can bring about a noticeable improvement or degradation in how the double bass sounds.

For me, the best example of this was last week as I was at a festival in a large -- 400 seat capacity -- nearly empty low-ceiling meeting hall with about 20 other musicians and their instruments, having a group picture taken of us all... This room was used for jamming, workshops and as a backup stage in case of bad weather. Initially we were in the middle of the hall and the sound was dead, like a vacuum had sucked all the sound away...

Then the photographer had us all move with our backs close to a wall where reflective lighting would improve his shots. Within 2 to 3 feet of that wall, the sound was crazy alive -- I could hear my double bass with remarkable volume and clarity that I had not experienced in the rest of the room.

I've experimented around my house and found the same thing. Playing close and with the back of my double bass to a completely unoccluded wall sounded like I was playing into a microphone and sound system.

Most of my playing double bass is in jams without amps or mics, and generally I do not get complaints about volume, tone or clarity. But it isn't unusual for me to not hear myself while playing as well as I would like to. Interestingly about a year ago in a jam inside an enclosed patio I situated myself against a back wall and I recall that I had remarkable volume that I could hear myself -- I now think this was that unoccluded wall effect.

Venues don't always provide the ability to move around and select where we want to play, but playing with my back against an unoccluded wall -- or in a corner of two such walls -- is now my most desired location.

Have others here found this to be true???

Yes. In spades! It was under such circumstances that I first learned the value of a variable high-pass filter as a bassist.

A few years ago, I was wearing a ball cap with a large bill, tipped back casually on my head, and I was surprised at the way it effected my perception of sounds; as I rotated my head or walked around, the bill worked like a dish antenna, directing certain sounds toward my ears, like continually variable EQ. By the way, the shifting of hearing perception was remarkably different when facing into an inside corner indoors than when outdoors in open air. Recently, when I was having trouble with my hearing aids, I remembered hat-brim-acoustics and deliberately oriented my hat brim to make it easier to hear a family conversations.

I find Acoustics and Psychoacoustics fascinating!