Double Bass Intonation and muscle memory with different heights

[Jaygetsreal]

I am still near the beginning of the journey that leads from BG to DB and hopefully one day great technique and intonation. So I have a question for the wise and experienced.

When you've invested long hours on one bass with the endpin always exactly the same length, what happens if you play barefoot or play outdoors and the ground is uneven or the endpin sinks into the lawn a bit?

I have never reached that level of practice with one instrument so I'm not sure how muscle memory adapts to the different fingerboard feel and required pitch compensation for this different height from the ground. Or am I missing something?

 

[Wasnex]

I am still near the beginning of the journey that leads from BG to DB and hopefully one day great technique and intonation. So I have a question for the wise and experienced.

When you've invested long hours on one bass with the endpin always exactly the same length, what happens if you play barefoot or play outdoors and the ground is uneven or the endpin sinks into the lawn a bit?

I have never reached that level of practice with one instrument so I'm not sure how muscle memory adapts to the different fingerboard feel and required pitch compensation for this different height from the ground. Or am I missing something?

Adjusting the height may change how efficiently you can access the extreme high and low range, but IMHO it does not have much impact on intonation...other than when you are making a huge jump. My point is the calibration of your hand tend to remain relatively good, but your ability to judge exactly where you are on the bass may be compromised somewhat. Of course it depends somewhat on how extreme of a height change occurs. A small change will tend to feel a bit awkward. A large change may make next to impossible to play in some positions...or put you at risk of injury.

However, I find switching basses tend to totally jacks my intonation when I have to rely purely on muscle memory...I.E. when I can't hear the instrument. I used to switch between traditional upright and a 6-string NS design electric upright. This was not a problem when I was playing styles where the bass was loud enough to be heard clearly. But when I played in a classical style, where the bass is expected to blend into the section instead of pushing the entire band, I found it very difficult to play the upright in tune if I had recently played on the NS design. Because of this I would set the NS Design aside a week or two before preparing material for concert band tours. Then I would bust out Simandl to calibrate my hand.

 

[Co.]

If you lose your intonation, when the height of the bass changed, this might be an indication, that you rely too much on the absolute positions of the notes, instead of the distances between the notes.
Whenever I pick up a double bass, one of the first things I do, is sliding up and down a perfect fourth in the lower positions. This gives me a good starting point for all the other distances between different intervals in different positions.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I see both sides of this issue. When I was a less experienced player, the height of the bass changing could affect my intonation, especially in situations where it is difficult to hear quickly and clearly, as in a loud gig in a reverberant room. I remember one such situation where I was having trouble during the first set of a gig only to discover on the break that the pin was set one notch too low or high. Second set was better, but the reverb wasn’t helping.

These days I don’t think it would be as much of a issue, but on the other hand I’m also very particular about sitting at a certain height with the bass at a certain angle with the pin all the way in. I would say any change would more likely affect fine intonation rather than general intonation, meaning that more aural adjustment would likely be needed until the physical recalibration sank in.

 

[Jmilitsc]

This used to totally stress me out years ago too (make sure my practice sneakers match the height of my gig shoes! Jeez!), and other bassists I’ve spoken with as well, even experienced players. There are a zillion things that affect intonation in a situation, and things change during the situation too (string goes out of tune/temp/humidity/etc). Height is only one thing. I think the best thing about your concern is that you’re concerned in the first place, paying attention to this, and listening. That, plus the obvious (practicing and time on the instrument) will settle the concern down. One thing that i guarantee will help you is to just do those things that concern you - play outside on uneven ground, play barefoot, play in loud situations where you can’t hear yourself, switch basses, change pin heights. The more you do it the more you won’t care because you’re just used to making adjustments on the fly, and you can hear the consistency of your intonation confirming success. Use your tuner to help confirm you’re making those adjustments too. A current project for me is my switch from straight pin to the Robpin - working on finding the best height/angle is both fun and disruptive to consistent intonation, but it’s proving many of these points - can’t stress about it, just do it, and the intonation will come as I get comfortable in any given configuration. I guess at the end of the day the way i learn best is don’t “what if”, instead “just do”. I’m no pro, but that’s my journey FWIW.

There’s a video I can’t find of Itzhak Perlman playing the most incredible music, sounding perfectly in tune the whole way. Then after the piece he plays the open strings and shows the violin is completely out of tune, at least that’s how i recall it. He had made adjustments on the fly to keep the piece in tune even though the instrument wasn’t. Anyone got a link to this?

Love this advice:

If you lose your intonation, when the height of the bass changed, this might be an indication, that you rely too much on the absolute positions of the notes, instead of the distances between the notes.
Whenever I pick up a double bass, one of the first things I do, is sliding up and down a perfect fourth in the lower positions. This gives me a good starting point for all the other distances between different intervals in different positions.

 

[lurk]

I can't say it affects intonation specifically, but something that drives me nuts is the odd times when my feet are on two different levels: one on a carpet, say, and the other one the floor. It affects everything about my playing.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Two things:

-I can always make small adjustments to the height of the bass for different situations...or shoes! I judge it by where the nut lines up to against my head when the bass is standing straight up. Small variations are no big deal because...

-I can compensate for the endpin by how i stand with the bass, adjusting the lean of the bass for example. So even if the endpin isn't in a consistent place i can still get myself into a comfy position.

But overall i do try to keep the bass at a consistent height for the sake of consistency of technique and feel when playing. But i'm flexible enough to not need it to be at some sort of exact place everytime i play.

 

[Groove Doctor]

You adapt much quicker as you get more experience. With time You’ll eventually learn ways to work around all these things. Practising in gig shoes would top my list.