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Intonation. How is it possible that over time, while playing, my tuning goes sharp rather than flat?

#23
Means2nEnd said:
I don't think he mentioned a getting in tune problem it was a staying in tune issue. No tuner itself will fix that only help you every time you have to re tune.
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... absolutely .. however, he did mention being 'anal' about his tuning ... and the more precise he starts, the more 'acceptable' it will be half way through a song if it begins to change ever so slightly ... I understand an anal mind, I live with one ... ;)
 
#25
What kind of bass? I eventually abandoned a Kramer bass a long time ago because the aluminum neck caused me to have to re-tune the bass constantly - every few tunes - as the neck warmed up in my hands and cooled off on breaks. The nut friction issue can be a real problem, and if lubing it alone doesn't solve the problem, you need the nut grooves contoured and polished by a good luthier. If there's any sort of edge on the outfeed (tuner) side of the nut, it will snag the string windings unpredictably.
 
#26
Yup.... its your nut for certain. Common problem on guitars. .... bass can have that too if your nut slots are too narrow or are of high friction material (which is bad design but surprisingly common on stock basses), or if your bass uses string retainers like many fender and ebmm type designs.

We typically tune up to pitch, not down, to help keep the tension high on the tuner side of the nut so bends and vibrato aren't likely to pull a lower tension section of string from the other side through the high friction nut into the playing side of the string area. The lower section on the tuner side results from tuning down to pitch instead of up. ... and most people also hear flattening of pitch more readily than sharpening of pitch, or at least find flattening more offensive.

So yes, normal tuning up to pitch can result in subtle sharpening of pitch over time.
 
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#30
Vonnegut said:
Intuitively, I feel that it would only be possible to go flat, but I'll tune my bass perfectly, then later on when retuning, I'll notice everything is ever so slightly sharp. How?!
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Quit playing in meatlockers.

If the strings get cold, they shrink a bit and go sharp. As they warm up, they relax a bit, going slightly flat.

Maybe your hands are cold.

This brings up those people who swear their basses NEVER go out of tune. For that to happen, they more than likely live in a temperature and humidity controlled terrarium. Actual, I might be speaking out my rectal orifice there about humidity.

Having lived in single digit humidity, playing gigs in Redondo and Huntington Beach, and other gigs in Twentynine Palms, I've NEVER had dampness or lack of it cause me any grief and cause any of my gear go wonky on me.

I may not have been able to breathe through my nose, even as substantial as it may be, but dampness at the beach has never caused me a moment's problem.

Your problem is some other dynamic I bet. It AIN'T the tuners as they don't slip, at least not to get tighter.

BTW - since moving to Montana where there is very little humidity in almost all seasons, I've STILL to have to need to adjust one of my over 20 truss rods. I anxiously await the day when I can use my Allen wrenches to make that adjustment.

[/soapbox] I just feel snippy today.
 
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#31
Heat expands. Cold retracts.
It's been my experience that when you touch/hold a neck and make contact with the metal strings, your warm hands transfer heat to those parts and will/can make them GROW ever so slightly. This can be especially noticeable under hot stage lightening or when transitioning between hot and cold areas of the stage.
The worst is when playing an outdoor gig and you've got warm hands... the neck will oscillate between trying to tighten and slacken very quickly depending on the bass. I used to have a Tune Bass Maniac that was basically unplayable because of this problem....the bass was CRAZY!

You should try experimenting with making the bass cold and then playing it until it warms in your hands and noting the results.
 
#32
Do you power up the tuner when you start playing, and then leave it on?

The tuner may be drifting as it warms up. If that's the case, try turning
the tuner on 15 min or so before you tune up initially and see if that makes
a difference.

Unless accuracy is spec'd over a temperature range, you can't assume that
it's temperature compensated.

If the tuner is stable, sticking nut slots are about the only other possibility.

-
 
#33
megafiddle said:
Do you power up the tuner when you start playing, and then leave it on?

The tuner may be drifting as it warms up. If that's the case, try turning
the tuner on 15 min or so before you tune up initially and see if that makes
a difference.

Unless accuracy is spec'd over a temperature range, you can't assume that
it's temperature compensated.

If the tuner is stable, sticking nut slots are about the only other possibility.

-
Click to expand...


Wha ????
Superhetrodyne tuners went out in the 1800's.
 
#34
SurferJoe46 said:
Wha ????
Superhetrodyne tuners went out in the 1800's.
Click to expand...



Everything is temperture sensitive. It all depends on how closely you look.
If there is anything analog in the measuring process, it can absolutely be
temperature sensitive, especially if there is a defect.

Also, manufacturers have a bad habit of confusing resolution and accuracy.
They're not the same thing. A resolution of 1 cent does not mean an accuracy
of 1 cent.

It's a simple test to rule out temperature drift due to warm up. That's why I
suggested it.

-
 
#36
I live in Wisconsin, and temperature and humidity affect my basses quite a bit. My Rick was just a little sharp, and no surprise, because I've been playing it with the windows open in the house, and it's been quite humid here lately. Even in winter, the humidity or lack thereof, affects my instruments. The temperature in this case does little to affect them directly, because during winter the house is heated to a fairly consistent degree. Yet, I still have to keep on them when the temperature drops in winter, because the moisture goes with it and the necks will bow as a result. My old Jaguar bass was so sensitive to this that I wound up selling it. It seemed that I had to tweak the truss rod every third time I took it out of the case.
 
#37
ishu? Gesundheit...I guess.

OP: Like others, I believe this "going sharp" you notice is 95% due to temperature change. The strings have cooled. Try rapidly sliding the palm of your left hand length-wise back and forth on the strings for the length of the neck. 15-20 seconds of this friction should warm them up. In fact, if you find them sharp, try the warm-up and them check them again. I would bet that they will be much closer to the original pitch.
 
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#39
This seems to have been asked quite few times recently. Happened to me. I live in Wales, cold and damp most of the time. At around April we had a weather change that sent the thermometers soaring, my wooden-necked basses would not stay in tune from one minute to the next. Has never ever happened to me before. Now the weather is back to normal for this time of year there is no problem.
 
#40
I don't get the nut binding idea. If the string sticks at the nut, then later works through, that would cause the string to go flat, not sharp. Maybe I'm missing the point.

In any case, stringed instruments do not stay perfectly in tune. The laws of physics make sure of that. Temperature, humidity, and friction all cause variation in tuning. Just be glad you don't play harp. :)
 

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