Intonation issue

[TRichardsbass]

Good morning builders!

My dilemma. Purchased a Kubicki Key Factor 4 that was almost new, barely played. Owner hadn't touched it in nearly 10 years, or so he says. Looks like that may be the case.

The neck relief was a lot and the action was quite high. Strings were GHS, probably 10-15 years old.

So, I didn't check anything on the bass per se since it needed a complete set up.

I did a full set up. Put on new strings. Pulled 3/32 out of the neck (the truss rod had and still has tons of travel) to set the neck relief to factory specs (1/32-2/32), then adjusted the string height to 5/32-9/64-9/64-1/8. Looks good.

Then did the intonation. After some general tweaking, I have intonation at the 12th fret perfect, using both methods (factory style on its back and also Dan Erlewine style, in playing position.) However, frets 1-11 are sharp.

Increasing as you go lower on the neck, about two lines on a Boss TU-3 tuner. Did the same with my Hartke tuner.

Normally, when strings are sharp low it means the nut needs to be cut. But this thing really is almost new and I know Phil would never let something leave his shop this way.

So, I"m perplexed. Looking for people who are builders to give me some advice or tips.

tom

 

[pilotjones]

Check whether the nut has shifted in the headstock direction.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

That's really odd as the only problem I've ever had with intonation is up the neck not down the neck. Are you sure your tuners are accurate? Did you tune at open strings and they were fine? I would not suggest cutting the nut either, some other factor is at work here, hey I made a pun too!
Dirk

 

[TRichardsbass]

Check whether the nut has shifted in the headstock direction.

Thanks. Looking at it now, no, no nut shift. These are nicely seated in the rosewood. I understand exactly what you are thinking though, I have a Vaccaro that the nut is just glued and although it has a zero fret when the nut shifted it caused problems.

So, that doesn't seem to be the issue here.

thanks though!

 

[TRichardsbass]

That's really odd as the only problem I've ever had with intonation is up the neck not down the neck. Are you sure your tuners are accurate? Did you tune at open strings and they were fine? I would not suggest cutting the nut either, some other factor is at work here, hey I made a pun too!
Dirk

Open string is fine. 12th fret fine. Checked it right now. I've let it sit for two days so the neck adjustment could settle in and the new strings get a chance to stretch.

Same. I've never encountered this before.

tom

 

[THand]

I would try lowering the action by 1 or 2/32.
It could be, the notes are being pulled sharp because they have too far to travel.

 

[FBB Custom]

Get out a machinist's rule and check that the fret slots are not off.

Is it possible that the nut is supposed to be compensated but is not? Was Kubicki ever using some kind of tuning system like Feiten?

 

[grisezd]

Possible that the nut slots are cut higher towards the tuners than the fretboard?

 

[JKos]

The the 5th and 17th fret method of setting the intonation and see what you get. That would help eliminate or pinpoint the nut as the problem.

- John

 

[TRichardsbass]

Follow up...

Took the GHS Boomers off, replaced with DR Hi Beams. G and D string are now spot on. E and A still off, but not by as much.

At some time in the future I'll take her to a luthier to get it remedied, but for now I'll just tune E and A down a touch so that its in tune through fret 10.

So, it was the strings. No more GHS for me other then my double ball steinbergers.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

You do know you should always setup your intonation especially when changing string brands right? Also it's even odder that you would fix the higher 2 strings and the slower/lower strings would be sharp still. If anything I would expect the opposite results.
Good luck,
Dirk

 

[TRichardsbass]

You do know you should always setup your intonation especially when changing string brands right? Also it's even odder that you would fix the higher 2 strings and the slower/lower strings would be sharp still. If anything I would expect the opposite results.
Good luck,
Dirk

I set-up the bass everytime I change the strings, as even between manufacturer's lots you can have intonation problems. This one just has me perplexed because I have it perfect at 12 but it was sharp everywhere else low and the nut seems perfect. I guess I could take a file to the nut one or two strokes but I am always afraid of cutting the nut too deep. I had to do surgery like this to a vintage Dano once because the previous owner had widened the E string slot to fit a standard string but didn't do it correctly and I took it to an old tech because I was afraid I'd wind up cutting the nut slot too deep.

Live and learn...