iPad Mixing - too much of a good thing?

[rob2966]

Just wondering what peoples perception is of sound engineers using newer digital systems with the iPad control, etc. vs. more traditional setups. It is likely just (bad) luck of the draw but recently, most of the times when the sound person is running sound from an iPad, they seem to get buried in the "tweaking", constantly playing with the FOH sound, sometimes missing (or slow to react) to mix issues, and also at times very difficult to signal from the stage for monitor adjustments, etc.

Obviously, it is just a tool, it does come down to the user, and maybe since it is so new (and so cool) we are just hitting the "learning curve" of this trend. Just wondering if other casual gigging musicians (who don't have their own sound) are finding similar things?

Later
Rob

 

[4Mal]

i guess I don't qualify as I gig seriously and own a sound co. I hope never to have to work without a digital setup again

 

[walterw]

sometimes missing (or slow to react) to mix issues, and also at times very difficult to signal from the stage for monitor adjustments, etc.

being slow to fix mix issues just means the guy's no good, but these might be the only two things that a physical board with plastic knobs on it has over the ipad; the ability to immediately yank down a knob or fader when something goes wrong, and the ability for the guy to have his hands on the critical controls (channel fader and fx aux send, say) while looking up at the band.

 

[Geri O]

being slow to fix mix issues just means the guy's no good, but these might be the only two things that a physical board with plastic knobs on it has over the ipad; the ability to immediately yank down a knob or fader when something goes wrong, and the ability for the guy to have his hands on the critical controls (channel fader and fx aux send, say) while looking up at the band.

This^^ This^^ This^^ This^^ This^^ This^^...(get it?)

I've been remote mixing for around 10-11 years, at first with real tablet-style computers, long before iPad came out. From day one, I found that the constant focus on the screen, focus on the band, re-focus on the screen, and so on absolutely wore me out. I actually got to hating it, but then clients, especially corporate types noticed the lack of big console footprint and the trend caught on.

We see national acts come through with iPad mixing capabilities. Several this year are doing two X32 racks and iPads. All of them did a good job. If a soundguy is competent, he'll do fine with either a surface or an iPad. They are mostly younger guys (25-45, so younger than ME...), so hopefully they can still see....

If he's not, not even Betty Crocker can help him mix.

Great point, Walter!

(EDIT) I should have mentioned that in my renewed playing career, I've bought an X32 to do band monitors with. It's always near me and if the band of the day is lucky enough to have a budget for an audio guy, it's someone I can hand an iPad to in order the drive a mix. So does iPad mixing have a place? You betcha!

 

[jad]

It probably depends on the sound guy and their familiarity with the technology in my experience. The huge amount of features available in pretty much any digital board can be used effectively or negligently. It does seem to be easier for sound guys to become distracted by audience members who find him more approachable when mixing with an iPad rather than sitting behind an analog console.

Personally, until I got a digital board, I never had this many gates, comps and FX to deal with, so yeah, there is more work to do and it doesn't all necessarily get done during sound check. Once things settle in, I'm every bit as quick at riding the faders on guitar leads or backing vocals, or whatever. I try to make myself MORE accessible for monitor tweaks by coming up to the side of the stage when someone does their first lead vocal or if I get any kind of an impression that anyone thinks something isn't quite right.

When I run sound from the stage for my own band, it's every bit as much a "set it and forget it" thing as it was with analog gear, but it definitely sounds better, and the monitor mix is generally much more dialed in.

 

[walterw]

We see national acts come through with iPad mixing capabilities. Several this year are doing two X32 racks and iPads. All of them did a good job.

nationals are using ipads? wow, i wouldn't have guessed. i mean, the "adjusting wedges while you're in front of them" thing and the "walking the room tweaking" thing is so awesome, but i'm surprised they wouldn't go back to a big board once all that was sorted out.

i suppose they've got the flow down to where there are few surprises to send the guy scrambling through layers to find and kill the feedback, and he kind of knows which page to go to and when to go to it ahead of time as the show moves along?

(i have to admit though, in my little bar/club world i found the mackie ipad layout way easier to figure out than any physical digital board, especially one like the presonus where the faders couldn't even be trusted to be where they belonged.)

also, why two racks? are they rigged up as one 64ch mixer? it wouldn't be a "mains/monitors" thing, right? they could do that with one rack.

 

[David Jayne]

Guy we use does it, he works for Altel and does a fantastic job every time. But he only uses it for FOH. He takes a walk around the room once in awhile to adjust it. It's fine, it works. All the monitor stuff is on a regular board.

 

[David Jayne]

And check out his system- all set up and ready to go, can you see it? No it's not one of those Bose things- this is on a whole other level. This is a pretty big room with about 400 guests and it was clear and loud and handled it just fine. Quite unbelievable really. Technology is cool. Then there's my rig- a P bass into an A/B head into a 410... : D

 

[M Sterling]

My band's sound crew uses X32's and the only complaint the engineers ever have are the small size of the iPad screen and having to flip through screens to make quick changes.

We run IEM's and being able to control my monitor mix with an iPad/iPhone is absolutely amazing.

 

[s0c9]

My band's sound crew uses X32's and the only complaint the engineers ever have are the small size of the iPad screen and having to flip through screens to make quick changes.

We run IEM's and being able to control my monitor mix with an iPad/iPhone is absolutely amazing.

Same here. Nothing out FOH.. console is stage side along with PA/rack etc.
I have an iPad atop my amp to mix my IEM's.

 

[M Sterling]

Same here. Nothing out FOH.. console is stage side along with PA/rack etc.
I have an iPad atop my amp to mix my IEM's.

That is exactly how we have it set up!!

 

[David Jayne]

Wow, you guys have the hot setup! We're not quite there but it works.

 

[Geri O]

nationals are using ipads? wow, i wouldn't have guessed. i mean, the "adjusting wedges while you're in front of them" thing and the "walking the room tweaking" thing is so awesome, but i'm surprised they wouldn't go back to a big board once all that was sorted out.

i suppose they've got the flow down to where there are few surprises to send the guy scrambling through layers to find and kill the feedback, and he kind of knows which page to go to and when to go to it ahead of time as the show moves along?

(i have to admit though, in my little bar/club world i found the mackie ipad layout way easier to figure out than any physical digital board, especially one like the presonus where the faders couldn't even be trusted to be where they belonged.)

also, why two racks? are they rigged up as one 64ch mixer? it wouldn't be a "mains/monitors" thing, right? they could do that with one rack.

Most of those guys are on all ears, so feedback with the monitors is hardly ever an issue. As long as the house system is tweaked properly, there's little chance of feedback there (although it certain'y ain't out of the question.

The racks are separate 32-channel units. And the racks are usually driven through a good ol' copper split. In one case, I saw the two racks sharing head amp gain, but the guys on that level really want separate everything, including channel gain, EQ, dynamics, and FX. and they can afford it. Sometimes you'll see the (get ready for this) bass player with the band taking care of the monitors while they have a dedicated FOH guy (I warned ya...). They spend several days in a rehearsal studio or soundstage tweaking the show and the production. So they are pretty well set once they hit the road.

The Mackie unit you mentioned is very cool, indeed. I won't start in on the Presonus, I know a lot of folks around here like it and use it. Suffice it to say, it wasn't on my short list of mixers to consider.

I had a little taste of that life. I'm much happier playing bass.

 

[walterw]

And check out his system- all set up and ready to go, can you see it?

yeah, it's what the bose wants to be when it grows up!

i note you still have actual monitor wedges, too.

the "little line array" mains can be set up front to do their job of providing wide coverage at moderate volume without the headache of trying to fake it as the band monitors too.

 

[walterw]

The racks are separate 32-channel units. And the racks are usually driven through a good ol' copper split. In one case, I saw the two racks sharing head amp gain, but the guys on that level really want separate everything, including channel gain, EQ, dynamics, and FX.

wait, so it really is one X32 for mains and the other for monitors?

i guess that makes sense if the racks are cheap enough and they really want totally independent mixes, gains, FX and everything.

make me wonder if anybody at the pro level is making a rackmount digital mixer with truly independent processing for FOH and all the auxes, as in gain, EQ, dynamics, FX, everything.

 

[Geri O]

wait, so it really is one X32 for mains and the other for monitors?

Yep. It really is.

Yes, it's overkill. Yes, there's advantages to having two separate units for mains and monitors. But it certainly can be done on just one desk.

In the case of the big national acts, using 2 racks of X32 is saving a TON of money in leasing two full-size desks, not to mention trailer or truck space transporting them. So the management is only too happy to allow them 2 separate racks.

 

[David Jayne]

Yep. It really is.

Yes, it's overkill. Yes, there's advantages to having two separate units for mains and monitors. But it certainly can be done on just one desk.

In the case of the big national acts, using 2 racks of X32 is saving a TON of money in leasing two full-size desks, not to mention trailer or truck space transporting them. So the management is only too happy to allow them 2 separate racks.

Would you mind giving me a brief overview of what this actually is? I'm a bit behind. PM if you prefer- much appreciated. EDIT found website. Still would like any info/experience.

 

[walterw]

Yes, it's overkill. Yes, there's advantages to having two separate units for mains and monitors.

makes sense, and i suppose if one s**ts the bed they can scramble and use the other to do the whole show, maybe with a saved "emergency show" setup (as much respect as the X stuff is getting these days it is still behringer )

 

[cnltb]

Just wondering what peoples perception is of sound engineers using newer digital systems with the iPad control, etc. vs. more traditional setups. It is likely just (bad) luck of the draw but recently, most of the times when the sound person is running sound from an iPad, they seem to get buried in the "tweaking", constantly playing with the FOH sound, sometimes missing (or slow to react) to mix issues, and also at times very difficult to signal from the stage for monitor adjustments, etc.

Obviously, it is just a tool, it does come down to the user, and maybe since it is so new (and so cool) we are just hitting the "learning curve" of this trend. Just wondering if other casual gigging musicians (who don't have their own sound) are finding similar things?

Later
Rob

I think it's not an issue of the tools but of the guy not knowing how to use those properly.

 

[pedroims]

Our PW leader is trying to get a digital mix for our church, he thinks that this will make everything easier for all the people that help us with the sound and that do not have an idea what they are doing, seems like it will get worse