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Is 100 watts enough to play out? ... mmmmmmnope.
- Thread starter Munjibunga
- Start date
Clearly watts are weaker now than back when Munji was young. They used 100w bass amps to demolish buildings back then. Now you need 300w just to be heard in the front row. 
I've successfully played hundreds of gigs with my V4B through a pair of 15"s since this thread started, and nobody has complained about not hearing me.
So yes, 100 good watts is plenty to gig with.
So yes, 100 good watts is plenty to gig with.
I would agree with the op on the rig used, but maybe not the watts story. I have played a mb200 into a epifini 410 and had plenty of headroom with it. IMHO it has more to do with the number of speakers and the efficancy of those speakers than total watts. I play through a borrowed vintage fender combo at practice. It is 25 watts (tube watts) into a 410. Great amp awesome tone. Not the loudest thing but gets through practice, and the guy I borrow it from plays it at gigs with the use of a DI for FOH volume.
I gig with a 150w 1x12 Combo, against a 30w 1x8 and 100w 2x12 combos (Both Solid State) and it can only just cope. I also have a quite midrange heavy tone, as thats what works, i used to run the amp pretty flat and i could barely hear myself let alone the crowd hear me properly. I'm swapping to a 500w rig with 2x210's in about a month though, i'm sure that will be loud enough.
Liam
Liam
I've successfully played hundreds of gigs with my V4B through a pair of 15"s since this thread started, and nobody has complained about not hearing me.
So yes, 100 good watts is plenty to gig with.
+(v)4
I play a V4B thru a B series ampeg 4x10, and get compliments on tone. 100 w solid state combo is a whole 'nuther enchilada, however, on that I am in agreement (and likely clarified across the decade plus this thread has been breathing). Or...it could be a 'nati thing ;]
I guess I must be stupid or something, because I play my 60w Ampeg B-18N out everywhere and have never once had a problem with being too quiet. I have played outdoors, small rooms, larger rooms, and all were just fine. In fact, I've never had to turn the volume up past 3 o'clock on this thing, and the one time I did that was a rarity.
So I think it really depends on the scenario; I play in a reggae/funk band where the loudest guitar amp is 20w (tube, mind you), and the bass sits in the mix wonderfully. If anything, the bass can be overpowering at times! The drummer isn't insanely loud either. So basically it means you need to tailor the amp to the situation. I'm sure that if I tried to use this thing unmic'ed at a metal/heavy rock gig I'd be in trouble. But I have a respectful band together who have realized that this is no longer the era of 100w-guitar-stacks-by-necessity, and high quality low-powered amps can sound amazing live
So I think it really depends on the scenario; I play in a reggae/funk band where the loudest guitar amp is 20w (tube, mind you), and the bass sits in the mix wonderfully. If anything, the bass can be overpowering at times! The drummer isn't insanely loud either. So basically it means you need to tailor the amp to the situation. I'm sure that if I tried to use this thing unmic'ed at a metal/heavy rock gig I'd be in trouble. But I have a respectful band together who have realized that this is no longer the era of 100w-guitar-stacks-by-necessity, and high quality low-powered amps can sound amazing live
That high on a B-18 and I think you'd be in fuzz land!
I gig my B-15N with a similar set up, guitarists using 30 watt tube amps (orange, fender, vox, etc) and a drummer with a volume appropriate touch. That amp - at 25 watts - has been enough for most gigs with that group. I think the one time it was running a little quiet was an "in studio" performance we filmed for some college tv program and that was mainly because it was a stage in a big tv studio and not really a room designed for great acoustics and the only monitors we had were for vocals.
I have to disagree. Wattage means nothing, especially considering the way manufacturers do their rating. I would wager the problem with the amp in the original post is not the 100 watts, if that is a true rating but instead the single 15 that is probably in it to take those watts.
Look I played the watt's race game, through numerous incarnations of my rig up to running a Crown CE 2000 power amp in my rig. In the end I didn't get the volume I needed with the tone I wanted at that volume until I shelled out for good cabinets. That is the biggest difference in my experience and I maintain that as universal for most if they were to try it.
Case in point, my cabinet setup is a Genz Benz Neo-X 112 on top of a Warwick 211 pro (2x10). For the past year I was running them with a Markbass sd800, which is a 750 watt amp, by their rating, it sounded good, did the job, plenty of power, volume and tone. Then the sd800 needed servicing so I got a backup amp. Not wanting to spend big bucks on a backup I figured I would rarely use I found an Acoustic B200H at a local Music Go Round and ended up buying that for $135.
So I went home and tested it and found first of all that the Acoustic could easily reach the volume I needed at that wattage (less than 1/3 that of the SD800's rated power). But the other thing is I started liking the tone of the Acoustic. I found I could get a slight bit breakup in it at more useable volume ranges that gave my tone a better bite and I kind of prefer it's control layout and EQ options.
Truth is now the SD800 has been relegated to my backup head. I should not be opting for the cheaper head by all logic but the fact is, yeah maybe the SD800 is a better head, but it is not a 3-4x the cost better head. Not to slight Markbass products as I do like them but the Acoustic amazed me.
It has forced me to reconsider my rig plans overall. One no more high wattage heads. Not needed. Granted I get a good deal on one that I like the sound then maybe. Two keep my money in cabinets when it comes to amplification.
I gig a good amount, anywhere from 4-10 times a month. I don't have a road crew so yeah more speaker moving is less helpful but it is not a big deal, what I like is that one, my head is less desirable to steal, my cabinets may be more desirable but last I checked it is a lot easier to put the SD800 under your coat (yes mine is racked but still) then it is to even sneak that 1x12 out without being spotted. Next if something needs service well a low watt and potentially low dollar head is disposable, I can live with this. A high dollar head is not something I would open and service, but a high dollar speaker cabinet is something I am brave enough to open up and service.
The end result is this, IMHO if you want to throw money at your amplification rig then start with the cabinets. That is going to be the biggest determination of whether you have the volume to compete with guitar rigs. The watts arms race will not be winning plan.
That being said I am looking for another lower wattage amp to get the tone I want in my next head to make the Acoustic go back to backup duties. Thinking PF-350 or MB200 or finding a used deal on either a GK 800rb or 700-rbII. Once that is acquired I will probably sell the SD800. Again no slight to MB products but I want to change watts for tone "character".
Ken
Look I played the watt's race game, through numerous incarnations of my rig up to running a Crown CE 2000 power amp in my rig. In the end I didn't get the volume I needed with the tone I wanted at that volume until I shelled out for good cabinets. That is the biggest difference in my experience and I maintain that as universal for most if they were to try it.
Case in point, my cabinet setup is a Genz Benz Neo-X 112 on top of a Warwick 211 pro (2x10). For the past year I was running them with a Markbass sd800, which is a 750 watt amp, by their rating, it sounded good, did the job, plenty of power, volume and tone. Then the sd800 needed servicing so I got a backup amp. Not wanting to spend big bucks on a backup I figured I would rarely use I found an Acoustic B200H at a local Music Go Round and ended up buying that for $135.
So I went home and tested it and found first of all that the Acoustic could easily reach the volume I needed at that wattage (less than 1/3 that of the SD800's rated power). But the other thing is I started liking the tone of the Acoustic. I found I could get a slight bit breakup in it at more useable volume ranges that gave my tone a better bite and I kind of prefer it's control layout and EQ options.
Truth is now the SD800 has been relegated to my backup head. I should not be opting for the cheaper head by all logic but the fact is, yeah maybe the SD800 is a better head, but it is not a 3-4x the cost better head. Not to slight Markbass products as I do like them but the Acoustic amazed me.
It has forced me to reconsider my rig plans overall. One no more high wattage heads. Not needed. Granted I get a good deal on one that I like the sound then maybe. Two keep my money in cabinets when it comes to amplification.
I gig a good amount, anywhere from 4-10 times a month. I don't have a road crew so yeah more speaker moving is less helpful but it is not a big deal, what I like is that one, my head is less desirable to steal, my cabinets may be more desirable but last I checked it is a lot easier to put the SD800 under your coat (yes mine is racked but still) then it is to even sneak that 1x12 out without being spotted. Next if something needs service well a low watt and potentially low dollar head is disposable, I can live with this. A high dollar head is not something I would open and service, but a high dollar speaker cabinet is something I am brave enough to open up and service.
The end result is this, IMHO if you want to throw money at your amplification rig then start with the cabinets. That is going to be the biggest determination of whether you have the volume to compete with guitar rigs. The watts arms race will not be winning plan.
That being said I am looking for another lower wattage amp to get the tone I want in my next head to make the Acoustic go back to backup duties. Thinking PF-350 or MB200 or finding a used deal on either a GK 800rb or 700-rbII. Once that is acquired I will probably sell the SD800. Again no slight to MB products but I want to change watts for tone "character".
Ken
bajocallao
Supporting Member
- Jul 13, 2006
- 1,104
- 201
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: D'addario Strings, Aguilar Amplifiers
POS
Not true. Not all 100 watts are the same. My V4B through 2 x HT115's will stand up to most anything that I want to be in a room playing next to.
haha! it hasn't hit 'fuzz' territory yet per se; there was definitely some good natural grit, though. it was a prog show and I had my Ric plus an OD pedal going on... needless to say it was some dirty tone
good to know i'm not the only person crazy enough to gig out with a Fliptop! The two bassists I know who also have one keep them at home for practice...
Holy zombie thread...
My "big" gig rig is a 300W SVT 2-PRO into a 215, and I'm almost constantly being told to turn down on stage to improve the PA mix out front. I sometimes wish I had a 100W tube amp instead, so I could get those crushing tones without being so overwhelmingly loud.
In fact, I played through a 50W Marshal guitar tube amp and a 410 bass cab at practice the other day just for fun, and I was easily able to hear myself over my insanely loud guitarists. I did have the 410 up on top of another cab so it was at around chest level, which probably helped to hear it quite a bit. Would it have been loud enough in a club without PA support? Probably not, but that's what bigger cabs are for...
My "big" gig rig is a 300W SVT 2-PRO into a 215, and I'm almost constantly being told to turn down on stage to improve the PA mix out front. I sometimes wish I had a 100W tube amp instead, so I could get those crushing tones without being so overwhelmingly loud.
In fact, I played through a 50W Marshal guitar tube amp and a 410 bass cab at practice the other day just for fun, and I was easily able to hear myself over my insanely loud guitarists. I did have the 410 up on top of another cab so it was at around chest level, which probably helped to hear it quite a bit. Would it have been loud enough in a club without PA support? Probably not, but that's what bigger cabs are for...
Is this the oldest active thread on TB? Anyone know of one older?
Munji, you should be proud!
--Bomb
Munji, you should be proud!
--Bomb
Yes but compare the physical size of the respective cabinets. You can have small and low but to do so you have to give up on efficiency. Personally I've never lacked for volume with my Acmes, a pair of B2s does everything I need.
Agreed.
You'd be a star over in the RH450 thread.
PS: Those HT115s would make anything sound good. They are the only 115 cabs I ever liked.
