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Is 100 watts enough to play out? ... mmmmmmnope.

#362
Sorry to resurrect this thread yet again, or to ask a question that has probably already been covered but here goes:

I play in a punk rock 3 piece with a very loud drummer and very loud guitarist (who now plays with two 50 watt halfstacks, a lead and a slave). I'm currently running a gk fusion 500 through an ampeg 8x10 classic. I keep the gain on a little over 9 o' clock and the master is pretty much the same, I use a pick and tend to dig in a bit. The deep and bright switches off and I dont use the bi-amp. Upon realising that I really wanted ampeg tube tone I immediately thought of an svt cl, however, I then found out about the v-4b and it captured my curiosity.

The tone (from what I've heard in youtube videos as in Australia, shops don't like stocking things) is absolutely what I'm after and price combined with the fact that it's half the weight of the cl makes it very attractive to me. The only worrying thing is the low wattage. At one point I had the chance to try an orange ad200 with my pedals through my cab and it didn't have nearly enough clean volume for me.

I know a lot of people talk about tube amps having more volume than solid state but this is really doing a number on me.

Granted I wouldn't be asking this if there was just a shop near me where I could try it for myself. Any advice/experience to share?
 
#363
V4B might work for you. That doesn't sound like you're running with an insane amount of volume with the GK and the V4B can put out some real gusto in an 810. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that based on the info presented here, it could likely work for you.
 
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#364
Depending on the implementation, 100 watts can be a lot.

My B rig is an Acoustic 136 combo that I keep stored in my band's lockout space. I believe its power rating is a mere 125 W, and it has a 15" in a reflex enclosure. At one of the first rehearsals I used it at, my bandmates were remarking how it really thumps the rehearsal studio room, and the lead guitarist said it felt like he was getting a foot massage. It can go a fair amount louder before the distortion gets to be too much.
 
#366
Munjibunga said:
I went to a party tonight where my band was asked to play, but our lead singer and lead guitarist couldn't make it, so they got another band. They were pretty good, played mostly classic rock ... Tom Petty, Stones, Neil Young, Hootie and the Blowfish ... HOOTIE and THE BLOWFISH? Well, anyway, the guitarists played Strats, one through a Fender Twin Reverb and the other through a Rocktron pre-amp with a Crest power amp into a Marshall half-stack. The bassist had a funky Kramer/Ferrington electric/accoustic playing through what? A Hartke 120-watt Kickback. He had to turn it up so high that it was distorting most of the night, and you could barely hear him. There certainly was not any real bottom to the groove.

So what? Well, it just reaffirms my belief that you need at least 300 watts to sound worth a crap, no matter what the gig. These guys were playing in a CLOSED GARAGE! So quit asking if we think a 100 watt bass amp is going to cut through the mix when your guitarist has a 50- or 100-watt amp. It won't. It just won't. I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel.
Click to expand...

I don't entirely agree. Without telling me the wattage, I would have told you that a dude playing through a Fender Twin and Pushing it *at all* would just slaughter most combo amps, let alone a Hardke "kickback".

A better 100 watt amp + better cab = able to keep up. But here we will at least come close to agreeing: Not by much. Those old Fender Twins could get insanely loud.
 
#367
You state the the Orange AD200 thru YOUR SVT810 cab wasn't quite enough to keep up, so, NO. In my experience, a 100w amp will Definality not cut it.
I've got the Fender Super Bassman 300 w all tube amp.

I've had SVT tube amps and love em and was gonna get an SVT-VR but a couple of very experienced TB'ers suggested I try the Fender Super Bassman 300.

It's 20lbs lighter than the SVT-VR and WILL do a virtually identical tone if that's what you're after, PLUS has the 2nd channel (footswitchable) which can blend ina superb overdrive-or stay clean.

In Aus it's nearly $1K cheaper too.
I haven't looked back. It's the best amp I've used in 40 yrs if all tube amps.
I've had 30,100, 160,200 watt tube amps and all never had enough clean headroom for me.
300w is just beautiful.
 
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#368
To each their own. I feel that many folks say a lower watt amp was used in some sort of situation and was fine. I think it is more about what kind of bass tone you are going for. Heard does not mean that it sounds good or is supportive. I also like to have plenty of headroom so notes are full and thick regardless of volume. Anytime I feel I have to set the amp to keep it from farting etc I know I need more. I currently use a 600 watt amp and feel I would like a 900 but pushed far less. I want thick powerful notes that support without struggling. To each their own. I am a have more and don't need it kind of guy.
 
#369
Wow, 14 year old threads? Don't think I've ever seen one in the wild before.

Saying that, I'd still disagree with the the 14 year old post. Maybe things were different back then. But time and time again we see on these boards that wattage is not all that important to volume. It's more about headroom. Doubling wattage gets a tiny amount more volume, that the same head through the same cab but with 400 watts rather than the 100, still wouldn't make a huge difference. More/better speakers, better EQ, other things... all going to make a lot more difference for you.

My guess is that the guitarists using a 212 and 412 between them, most likely, and the bass combo was probably a single 15 or something. It's no wonder the bass would be drowned out. Been there, done that, came back with my own half stack and blasted them away. ;D
 
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#370
Munjibunga said:
I went to a party tonight where my band was asked to play, but our lead singer and lead guitarist couldn't make it, so they got another band. They were pretty good, played mostly classic rock ... Tom Petty, Stones, Neil Young, Hootie and the Blowfish ... HOOTIE and THE BLOWFISH? Well, anyway, the guitarists played Strats, one through a Fender Twin Reverb and the other through a Rocktron pre-amp with a Crest power amp into a Marshall half-stack. The bassist had a funky Kramer/Ferrington electric/accoustic playing through what? A Hartke 120-watt Kickback. He had to turn it up so high that it was distorting most of the night, and you could barely hear him. There certainly was not any real bottom to the groove.

So what? Well, it just reaffirms my belief that you need at least 300 watts to sound worth a crap, no matter what the gig. These guys were playing in a CLOSED GARAGE! So quit asking if we think a 100 watt bass amp is going to cut through the mix when your guitarist has a 50- or 100-watt amp. It won't. It just won't. I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel.
Click to expand...
Fender Twin & Marshall 1/2 stack--too hot for the hot tub. It's tough to get people to play at decent volume. I doubt he needed all that firepower for a garage/party.
 
#373
Stealth Fighter said:
If you play at a decent volume, you can make it work with less than 100 watts. I did it for years with a Showman through two D140F JBL's. Band included guitar, drums, sax, bass, and Hammond organ/Leslie tone cabinet; no FOH.
Click to expand...
The Showman is a tube amp. My understanding is that solid state amps need higher wattage output than tube amps. Or is the OP using tubes?
And amazing how these Zombie threads just keep popping up...
 
#376
rodl2005 said:
You state the the Orange AD200 thru YOUR SVT810 cab wasn't quite enough to keep up, so, NO. In my experience, a 100w amp will Definality not cut it.
I've got the Fender Super Bassman 300 w all tube amp.

I've had SVT tube amps and love em and was gonna get an SVT-VR but a couple of very experienced TB'ers suggested I try the Fender Super Bassman 300.

It's 20lbs lighter than the SVT-VR and WILL do a virtually identical tone if that's what you're after, PLUS has the 2nd channel (footswitchable) which can blend ina superb overdrive-or stay clean.

In Aus it's nearly $1K cheaper too.
I haven't looked back. It's the best amp I've used in 40 yrs if all tube amps.
I've had 30,100, 160,200 watt tube amps and all never had enough clean headroom for me.
300w is just beautiful.
Click to expand...
.

Thanks for the tip, looks like I'm going to have to find somewhere I can try the fender.
 
#378
SanDiegoHarry said:
I don't entirely agree. Without telling me the wattage, I would have told you that a dude playing through a Fender Twin and Pushing it *at all* would just slaughter most combo amps, let alone a Hardke "kickback".

A better 100 watt amp + better cab = able to keep up. But here we will at least come close to agreeing: Not by much. Those old Fender Twins could get insanely loud.
Click to expand...
I could imagine keeping up with them if I used my GK MB200 and Bergantino CN212. But that would be pretty much de minimis.
 
#380
My rig: Fender 100T through Hartke Hydrive 410. I can keep up to reasonable sound levels. This included two guitarists with 40 watt Fender and Marshall combos ( single '12 ands 2-12 combos) with fairly loud drummer. My tone was spittin' and beautiful. I would no doubt need P.A. support if more volume needed. Hard time seeing this in any application I will likely see, given need for controlled stage volume levels to save hearing and allow for dynamics and not straining vocals. Jeez, this was already loud enough in my books! We had ample P.A. , monitor and side-wash support.

Marc
 

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