Is a DJ a musician

[Alan Vorse]

I'm still flabbergasted by the fact that people think because it takes years to master a "traditional" instrument, that Turntablists can just buy their gear on Monday and start performing on Friday. As I said, I have witnessed a DJ practicing scratching for an hour in the same fashion a guitarist would practice scales or a drummer would with rudiments. In the hour I heard him, it sounded like he needed to practice a LOT more to get up to a proficient level. I don't think somebody who is totally new to turntables could get behind them and immediatly do it on a pro level.

I seem to remrmber when electric guitars and rock music were new. Most of the old guard dismissed them as noise. Many people felt the electric bass was a toy and at best a novelty.

 

[scatman]

Some people may suggest learning about the late Larry Levan.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I'm still flabbergasted by the fact that people think because it takes years to master a "traditional" instrument, that Turntablists can just buy their gear on Monday and start performing on Friday. As I said, I have witnessed a DJ practicing scratching for an hour in the same fashion a guitarist would practice scales or a drummer would with rudiments. In the hour I heard him, it sounded like he needed to practice a LOT more to get up to a proficient level. I don't think somebody who is totally new to turntables could get behind them and immediatly do it on a pro level.

+1
I've also seen people pick up bass and have a gig within a week or two.

There's too much of this high and might attitude that we're "creating" music and DJs are just copying or sampling it. The physical aspect of what a bass player does is not much different than what a DJ does; we hold down one "button" and then press on another controller to activate it. It's not like we're inventing the notes or chords we play either- we've all heard what they are a thousand times before. We're just rearranging them in an order that we find musical. In other words, WE'RE SAMPLING. A good DJ has just as much if not more control over the notes/samples they play as we do. It's not the notes or the sounds that make it music- it's what we do with them.

 

[Freddels]

Just b/c a sound is produced, it doesn't mean it's music. People "practice" banging nails all day and it doesn't make them musicians. DJ's might be entertainers but they are not musicians. Neither is the person that buys the instrument today and forms the band next week. Buying a bottle of aspirin does not make me a doctor.

 

[tZer]

Just b/c a sound is produced, it doesn't mean it's music. People "practice" banging nails all day and it doesn't make them musicians. DJ's might be entertainers but they are not musicians. Neither is the person that buys the instrument today and forms the band next week. Buying a bottle of aspirin does not make me a doctor.

While a person banging nails without any intent of making music is truly, by definition, not making music, a person using a hammer and nails to create a percussion part - in other words, with the intent to make music - that person is making music.

Again - it's not the tool/instrument that determines whether or not the noise it generates is or is not music. It's the person using the tool/instrument that determines whether or not music is made.

 

[Alan Vorse]

Just b/c a sound is produced, it doesn't mean it's music. People "practice" banging nails all day and it doesn't make them musicians. DJ's might be entertainers but they are not musicians. Neither is the person that buys the instrument today and forms the band next week. Buying a bottle of aspirin does not make me a doctor.

Then how come so many rock bands came out between 1997 and 2001 that employed Turntablists? These guys were "producing sounds" that were very much part of the music being made by the band. It was rhythmic, it created a texture. These guys were full-fledged band members. The guys in the band who "spent countless hours" learning to play their instruments must have thought they were real musicians to pay them thousands of dollars. What about Medeski Martin and Wood or Vernon Reid? Those guys work with DJ's a lot. In an interview, Chris Wood said DJ Logic was a great listener and could even improvise along with what they were doing.

 

[dancehallclasher]

While a person banging nails without any intent of making music is truly, by definition, not making music, a person using a hammer and nails to create a percussion part - in other words, with the intent to make music - that person is making music.

Again - it's not the tool/instrument that determines whether or not the noise it generates is or is not music. It's the person using the tool/instrument that determines whether or not music is made.

Exactly -- did anyone watch Atonement and hear the soundtrack where the percussion was a typewriter? Obviously most times when people are typing they're not making music, but here the case was different.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

What about Medeski Martin and Wood or Vernon Reid? Those guys work with DJ's a lot. In an interview, Chris Wood said DJ Logic was a great listener and could even improvise along with what they were doing.

Herbie Hancock has worked with DJs as fellow musicians forever now (has done DJing stuff himself).

 

[Alan Vorse]

Herbie Hancock has worked with DJs as fellow musicians forever now (has done DJing stuff himself).

Thanks for reminding me. I wanted to mention Herbie Hancock's "Rockit."

This guy is a musician too:

 

[Vorago]

While a person banging nails without any intent of making music is truly, by definition, not making music, a person using a hammer and nails to create a percussion part - in other words, with the intent to make music - that person is making music.

Again - it's not the tool/instrument that determines whether or not the noise it generates is or is not music. It's the person using the tool/instrument that determines whether or not music is made.

+1

 

[canshaker]

And so it seems that those of us that say the DJ IS, in fact, a musician have provided proof, whereas those that say they are NOT, have only provided an opinion.
If this were a courtroom, I'd happily say:
The defense rests.

 

[LHbassist]

That the examples, clips on youtube, and 'credentials' are not proof of musicianship to me and many others here on TB. The poll results are somewhat indicative of this. I completely agree that it does take skill and practice to do what I have seen and heard those dj's do, and it does fall somewhere in the art of creative expression. You can say you have provided proof, and we have only opinions. After examining said proof, it still is my belief that it is far more involved to learn and gain proficiency on a traditional musical instrument, like a string bass, or bass guitar than on a 'pioneering' one like a turntable. To digress, wasn't the original poster simply asking for opinions?

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Yeah, it's obviously something that divides the TB community, but that doesn't mean it has to be a negative divide...I see it this as a similar to the age old question, "Fender P or Fender J?"

I think a lot of it also has to do with the relative age of the posters here, since most of us younger TB'ers (those of us who have grown up with hip-hop, for the most part) see it as an instrument, while a lot of older posters (and fascist youth... only kidding) look at is as more of a novelty.

 

[Chad Michael]

A DJ is absolutely not a musician.
A scratcher is a musician, of sorts.

That is all.

(pardon the Munji vernacular)

 

[tZer]

Yeah, it's obviously something that divides the TB community, but that doesn't mean it has to be a negative divide...I see it this as a similar to the age old question, "Fender P or Fender J?"

I think a lot of it also has to do with the relative age of the posters here, since most of us younger TB'ers (those of us who have grown up with hip-hop, for the most part) see it as an instrument, while a lot of older posters (and fascist youth... only kidding) look at is as more of a novelty.

I have this friend who is 40 and he keeps telling me he's young! I say to him, "No way, man! I've been young for much longer than you! I started wearing my ball cap sideways while you were still trying to figure out how far down you legs your pants were supposed to fall before you were a complete idiot... See, it's a delicate balance between cool and stupid... you just tipped."

See - it's not your chronological age that determines whether you are young or not - it's how you wear your hat.

 

[alfredpunkjazz]

You composed the piece...

Nope, still doesn't make you a musician.

Musically inclined...yes
Great musical ear...yes
good computer skills...yes

I can't believe someone actually said this...

man, this is plain wrong... I don't even understand the origin of this discussion... does it really matters if DJ's are muscicians?... They do music, no one can deny that. Wheter if there's a live performance or not won't make music more musical... It's still music...

:scowl:

 

[Alan Vorse]

After examining said proof, it still is my belief that it is far more involved to learn and gain proficiency on a traditional musical instrument, like a string bass, or bass guitar than on a 'pioneering' one like a turntable.

You make this statement as if to say that all bass players, guitarists and drummers are actually proficient. There's documentary footage where Patti Smith's guitarist Lenny Kaye stated that the punk rock movement was all about getting a guitar on Monday and being up on stage on Friday. Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols was apparently shown what a barre chord looks like and told to move it around. What about all the grunge and nu-metal guitarists who tune their bottom 3 strings root-5th-root so they can play power chords with 1 finger? I guarantee that DJ's spend more time working on their instrument than theses "players" did.

These guys are considered by most as legends:

 

[Freddels]

While a person banging nails without any intent of making music is truly, by definition, not making music, a person using a hammer and nails to create a percussion part - in other words, with the intent to make music - that person is making music.

Again - it's not the tool/instrument that determines whether or not the noise it generates is or is not music. It's the person using the tool/instrument that determines whether or not music is made.

I agree. If a percussionist decides to use whatever tool to make the sound, that percussionist was a musician first. However, just b/c someone that picks up a hammer and starts banging does not make that person a percussionist.

To me, a musician is someone who interprets, produces and/or composes music. Playing someone else's recordings does not make that person a musician. They might be an entertainer but not a musician.

 

[Alan Vorse]

To me, a musician is someone who interprets, produces and/or composes music. Playing someone else's recordings does not make that person a musician. They might be an entertainer but not a musician.

They just aren't putting a record on and pushing play. They are manipulating it to the point that it does not resemble the source material.

 

[Freddels]

+1
I've also seen people pick up bass and have a gig within a week or two.

There's too much of this high and might attitude that we're "creating" music and DJs are just copying or sampling it. The physical aspect of what a bass player does is not much different than what a DJ does; we hold down one "button" and then press on another controller to activate it. It's not like we're inventing the notes or chords we play either- we've all heard what they are a thousand times before. We're just rearranging them in an order that we find musical. In other words, WE'RE SAMPLING. A good DJ has just as much if not more control over the notes/samples they play as we do. It's not the notes or the sounds that make it music- it's what we do with them.

Does buying some paint, a canvas, and some brushes make someone an artist? If I take one of your paintings and add some more paint to it, does that make me an artist? Am I original? Can I sell it and call it a painting by me? Was I just "sampling" your painting? Is a house painter an artist?