Is a Squier Bass Really That Bad?

[stratovani]

Ooh, I love these "Are Squiers any good?" threads!

I am the proud owner of a Squier Affinity P-Bass, which I've had since 2007. It's my main gigging bass, along with a Hofner Icon. I've modified the crap out of it, to the point where all that's left that's original is the body, neck, and tuners. BTW I've never had even the slightest problem with the tuners, they've done exactly what they're supposed to do, which is keep the strings in place and in tune. The neck is of a good enough quality, the frets are even with no sharp spots, and the body is in good condition. All told the bass cost me $50.00 on eBay, all the mods I've done came out to a little under $200, so for $250 I've got me a P that in my opinion is every bit as good if not better than a MIM Fender.

 

[plankspanker13]

My VM Jag is rather impressive to behold, play and hear. I get compliments from other musicians, but thus far, it has only been in rehearsal. I have not gigged it yet (my G&L JB2s still shoulder that load), but that is more due to the fact that I am a hired gun for a few different groups, and I would like to keep the Jag as a bass specific to just one of them; a "visual identity" thing, so to speak. My honey-over-QM JB2 is also used with only one band name, but the sunburst gigs under many.

Additionally, I may not be ready to gig the Jag, since I want to put a BAII and black PG on it, in time. It plays and sounds great stock, with the minor adjustments made, and is in "grab & go" status, for when a friend might call for last-minute open-mic night support.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Thanks to CNC machines the Squiers are very consistent instruments. I have been impressed with my student's VM Jazz Basses and will probably get a Jaguar myself and upgrade the pickups and put Flatwounds on it for sessions.
One of my best friends and a great player, San Francisco bassist Steve Evans, has been gigging for years with a MIJ Sqiuer with EMGs and used that bass live and in the studio for over 25 years with Roy Rogers and The Delta Rhythm Kings, Coco Montoya, and Elvin Bishop among others. It's his go-to bass while Yamaha TRBs, Modulus and Tune 5 and 6 strings have come and gone.

 

[mdogs]

Thanks to CNC machines the Squiers are very consistent instruments. I have been impressed with my student's VM Jazz Basses and will probably get a Jaquar myself and upgrade the pickups and put Flatwounds on it for sessions.
One of my best friends and a great player, San Francisco bassist Steve Evans, has been gigging for years with a MIJ Sqiuer with EMGs and used that bass live and in the studio for over 25 years with Roy Rogers and The Delta Rhythm Kings, Coco Montoya, and Elvin Bishop among others. It's his go-to bass while Yamaha TRBs, Modulus and Tune 5 and 6 strings have come and gone.

Interesting stuff Roy! I went yesterday to my local GC (I am very lucky to have an awesome one, not one of the new Walmarts, one of the original Chicago store) and played a few of the Squier VM P basses. This is the first time in this store that I was really disappointed in the setup of their display instruments. The necks were bowed significantly making them extremely difficult to play and further making it difficult to believe the necks were going to be stable. I know that the weather significantly affects instruments during shipping and this is why is so important for the stores to at least give them a cursory setup when they receive them. I could have improved to the playability of these instruments about 1000% myself in about 3 minutes! Anyway, sound seemed good, but I am more concerned about playability because this is for my 10 year old son and I don't want him having to learn on a crappy playing bass like I did! I thought I wanted one of these for him, but now I am really questioning it...

 

[Daede]

While the tuning machines they've been using lately don't slip, necessarily, they're definitely made of cheaper materials, and don't even come close to measuring up to the ones on my Geddy. Both axes have a LQ BadAss Bass II bridge and flatwound Fender Lights strings, yet the Geddy manages to keep sustain a full minute longer than the Squier. While I'll give 15% - 25% of this loss of sustain over to the Agathis vs Alder argument, I'm gonna lay the rest of the blame on the tuners, since both guitars appear to have an identical nut.

It's also worth mentioning that Squiers do NOT come with a 'standard Fender bridge'. The bridge that comes on Squier guitars may look like standard Fender equipment, but the similarity ends there. Like the tuners, they're made of some cheap matierial, they're die-cast as opposed to machined, the grooves on the saddles were notched by a blind man, and they just flat-out suck.

All that being said, I maintain my Squier looked, sounded, and played like a guitar costing twice as much when I bought it, and $175 later it holds it's head high among MIM Fenders (and flat out sounds better. Those Duncan Designed pups are MONSTROUS)!

 

[Batmensch]

Interesting stuff Roy! I went yesterday to my local GC (I am very lucky to have an awesome one, not one of the new Walmarts, one of the original Chicago store) and played a few of the Squier VM P basses. This is the first time in this store that I was really disappointed in the setup of their display instruments. The necks were bowed significantly making them extremely difficult to play and further making it difficult to believe the necks were going to be stable. I know that the weather significantly affects instruments during shipping and this is why is so important for the stores to at least give them a cursory setup when they receive them. I could have improved to the playability of these instruments about 1000% myself in about 3 minutes! Anyway, sound seemed good, but I am more concerned about playability because this is for my 10 year old son and I don't want him having to learn on a crappy playing bass like I did! I thought I wanted one of these for him, but now I am really questioning it...

Reread the thread. You'll find the vast majority of Squier owners are more than satisfied with the way they sound AND play, especially once they get a proper setup. I mean, seasoned pros are using these things as their main gigging bass, and not just becasue they're afraid to bring their more expensive Fenders, but because they find them a joy to play.
You can dial in a nice action, they are as playable as any "real" Fender. And they are quite stable as well. For me , it was the many hundreds of positive testimonials I read online that led me to finally decide to get a Vintage Modified Jazz bass last July and I wasn't sorry I did. I was so happy with it, I ended up buying another Squier (the Vintage Modified P-bass, the amber one) a couple months later, and I'm even MORE happy with that one.

 

[Batmensch]

While the tuning machines they've been using lately don't slip, necessarily, they're definitely made of cheaper materials, and don't even come close to measuring up to the ones on my Geddy. Both axes have a LQ BadAss Bass II bridge and flatwound Fender Lights strings, yet the Geddy manages to keep sustain a full minute longer than the Squier. While I'll give 15% - 25% of this loss of sustain over to the Agathis vs Alder argument, I'm gonna lay the rest of the blame on the tuners, since both guitars appear to have an identical nut.

It's also worth mentioning that Squiers do NOT come with a 'standard Fender bridge'. The bridge that comes on Squier guitars may look like standard Fender equipment, but the similarity ends there. Like the tuners, they're made of some cheap matierial, they're die-cast as opposed to machined, the grooves on the saddles were notched by a blind man, and they just flat-out suck.All that being said, I maintain my Squier looked, sounded, and played like a guitar costing twice as much when I bought it, and $175 later it holds it's head high among MIM Fenders (and flat out sounds better. Those Duncan Designed pups are MONSTROUS)!

Well, quite frankly, that's not my experience at all. The tuners and the bridge on my two VM Squiers are quite well made, and function exactly as they are supposed to. The saddle grooves are right where they are supposed to be and even if the saddles are diecast, it doesn't affect the performance of the bass in any way. And as far as the sustain issue, even though that is not an issue for me personally as I damp the strings with a mute anyway, I find the sustain on both basses to be quite adequate for my purposes. I've found, all in all, regardless of how "cheap" the individual components may or may not be, the way they are put together, in the long run, matters more and, IMO, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

 

[jmercer91]

i saw the bassist from future of the left use a squier live, sounded awesome.

 

[plankspanker13]

While the tuning machines they've been using lately don't slip, necessarily, they're definitely made of cheaper materials, and don't even come close to measuring up to the ones on my Geddy. Both axes have a LQ BadAss Bass II bridge and flatwound Fender Lights strings, yet the Geddy manages to keep sustain a full minute longer than the Squier. While I'll give 15% - 25% of this loss of sustain over to the Agathis vs Alder argument, I'm gonna lay the rest of the blame on the tuners, since both guitars appear to have an identical nut.It's also worth mentioning that Squiers do NOT come with a 'standard Fender bridge'. The bridge that comes on Squier guitars may look like standard Fender equipment, but the similarity ends there. Like the tuners, they're made of some cheap matierial, they're die-cast as opposed to machined, the grooves on the saddles were notched by a blind man, and they just flat-out suck.

All that being said, I maintain my Squier looked, sounded, and played like a guitar costing twice as much when I bought it, and $175 later it holds it's head high among MIM Fenders (and flat out sounds better. Those Duncan Designed pups are MONSTROUS)!

I am curious as to how tuners affect the sound or tone. They certainly affect the pitch, but I do not see how they would impact the sustain.

 

[Daede]

I still have the stock tuners on my Squier, but I had to rip that bridge off. The string spacing was inconsistent (the G string wasn't even resting between the poles at all, but to the outside edge of one of them) and the sustain was horrible. I gained a full minute of sustain when i swapped bridges, and expect another 40 seconds when I swap tuning machines.

C.Linton, I agree with you that all the parts that come on the Squier VM basses are more than adequate and that the way the instruments are put together and setup matters a lot more than anything else, I'm just trying to give people here an accurate depiction of my experience with Squier.

On that note, it's worth re-mentioning (mentioned earlier in the thread) that the only real *immediate* issue I had with my Squier upon receipt was that it was a fretless with fret buzz... The fingerboard is marked with celluloid fret line inlays, and in several places they were protruding. I had to sand the fingerboard smooth to correct this.

 

[gjbassist]

I played a VM '77 Jazz bass last night at a music store. All I can say is wow! It was a fantastic looking bass that played and sounded great. If I were in the market for another jazz bass I would pick one up without hesitation.

 

[Daede]

I am curious as to how tuners affect the sound or tone. They certainly affect the pitch, but I do not see how they would impact the sustain.

The density of the materials that your strings touch matters a lot when it comes to sustain. Any place where string touches metal and metal touches wood is crucial. As the density of the materials involved increase, so does the amount of vibration that gets transferred between them. Hence, the greater the sustain.

If your tuners and bridge saddles are made of low-density cheap die cast metals, then they won't possibly transfer as much vibration into the wood as higher density, machined tuners and bridges.

Ask yourself why neck-through basses have more sustain than bolt-on neck basses, and the answer is easy: There are a few small, not so horribly dense screws forming the transfer point between the neck and the body on a bolt-on, and a *tremendous* amount of sustain is lost in said transfer.

If you look at bolt-on-neck basses that are known for having good sustain, you'll notice most of them use considerably thicker screws to hold the neck on, and usually they use more of them as well.

Hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from.

 

[dvh]

Stock: $300 from AMS. Arrived in 2 days with a horrible setup, roundwound strings, and the fret line markers protruding from the fingerboard in several places. The bridge was garbage and I don't care for the tuners (I think I'm losing a good deal of sustain there).

Do you really think that different tuners are going to make any significant, real world practical difference in sustain? How much more sustain does any solid bodied electric bass really need?

 

[Daede]

Do you really think that different tuners are going to make any significant, real world practical difference in sustain? How much more sustain does any solid bodied electric bass really need?

1) Yes, I think better tuners will make an audible difference
2) As much as I can pull out of it.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Interesting stuff Roy! I went yesterday to my local GC (I am very lucky to have an awesome one, not one of the new Walmarts, one of the original Chicago store) and played a few of the Squier VM P basses. This is the first time in this store that I was really disappointed in the setup of their display instruments. The necks were bowed significantly making them extremely difficult to play and further making it difficult to believe the necks were going to be stable. I know that the weather significantly affects instruments during shipping and this is why is so important for the stores to at least give them a cursory setup when they receive them. I could have improved to the playability of these instruments about 1000% myself in about 3 minutes! Anyway, sound seemed good, but I am more concerned about playability because this is for my 10 year old son and I don't want him having to learn on a crappy playing bass like I did! I thought I wanted one of these for him, but now I am really questioning it...

I think a lot of times they ship that way. I agree with you, you can significantly improve feel and setup with a little bit of TLC and new strings. FWIW, you can drastically improve the feel of one of these by investing in a set of D'Addarios.
It really does depend on the GC, IME. Nashville has Rick Taylor, who is a great bassist himself working on staff so the basses are generally playable as he tends to look at them. Las Vegas had Daryl Williams (you can see him in the Carvin Catalog now-he's since moved to San Diego) teaching there and he made sure that all the basses, particularly the high-dollar ones, in that store played like butter.
How tall is your 10 year old? You might want to start him out on a Mustang or Bronco first and get him the P Bass when he hits his Teenage growth spurt.

 

[Bassmanhopkins]

I dont see any problem with them, its because when you become a more seasoned player and you have heard/played various different basses of varying prices and workmanship etc, Squire seems like the "poor mans fender". Squires are excellent starting basses, but i would never use one regularly, if i had to, i would probably buy a J bass and Mod it, Change the pickups, change the Strings etc etc.

Im A Warwick man, but ive always liked Fenders, Warwicks just seem to have that growl and the avalibility in left handed so easily, Fretted and Fretless.

 

[Batmensch]

I still have the stock tuners on my Squier, but I had to rip that bridge off. The string spacing was inconsistent (the G string wasn't even resting between the poles at all, but to the outside edge of one of them) and the sustain was horrible. I gained a full minute of sustain when i swapped bridges, and expect another 40 seconds when I swap tuning machines.

C.Linton, I agree with you that all the parts that come on the Squier VM basses are more than adequate and that the way the instruments are put together and setup matters a lot more than anything else, I'm just trying to give people here an accurate depiction of my experience with Squier.On that note, it's worth re-mentioning (mentioned earlier in the thread) that the only real *immediate* issue I had with my Squier upon receipt was that it was a fretless with fret buzz... The fingerboard is marked with celluloid fret line inlays, and in several places they were protruding. I had to sand the fingerboard smooth to correct this.

Understood. That's what I'm doing , too.

 

[DanNowhere]

i saw the bassist from future of the left use a squier live, sounded awesome.

That's the guy from McLusky, who if I remember correctly used to put a blurb on their record sleeves about how they used Squier instruments exclusively. Which I thought was awesome.

 

[mdogs]

Reread the thread. You'll find the vast majority of Squier owners are more than satisfied with the way they sound AND play, especially once they get a proper setup. I mean, seasoned pros are using these things as their main gigging bass, and not just becasue they're afraid to bring their more expensive Fenders, but because they find them a joy to play.
You can dial in a nice action, they are as playable as any "real" Fender. And they are quite stable as well. For me , it was the many hundreds of positive testimonials I read online that led me to finally decide to get a Vintage Modified Jazz bass last July and I wasn't sorry I did. I was so happy with it, I ended up buying another Squier (the Vintage Modified P-bass, the amber one) a couple months later, and I'm even MORE happy with that one.

I think you kind of missed my point, I have read the thread and I have played good Squiers, these were not among that group. Of course, this made me start to wonder. That is it...

 

[mdogs]

How tall is your 10 year old? You might want to start him out on a Mustang or Bronco first and get him the P Bass when he hits his Teenage growth spurt.

Funny, he has a 34" scale Washburn that he is playing today and he plays my GL Jazz a lot as well. I tried to get him to play a short scale, but when we went to the store to try them out, he hated it. Which of course was fine with me, learn now on what you are going to be playing in the future if at all possible. He wants a P bad and wants flats on it, which I would not mind having around either so that is what is driving the purchase.