Is All Tube Worth It?

[seamonkey]

Why must he? People do all sorts of things without good or valid reasons. And part of demonstrating that one has good and valid reasons for upholding a particular position is disclosing one's interest (financial and otherwise) in the subject at hand. In my field (medicine), opinions and studies that are not accompanied by such disclosures are summarily dismissed as useless at best, and dangerous at worst.

Is that homeopathic medicine?
I only follow science and evidence based medicine.

What's wrong with getting evidence, and getting some measurements? No placebos, real thing.

For some reason measurements haven't been done. Even by those that portray themselves as neutral reviewers. This all rings of marketing hokum. I believe tube market is all marketing hokum, unless there's some actual studies otherwise. The anecdotal stories after anecdotal story do not equal evidence.

Why shouldn't there be alternative opinions to alternative solutions that in my opinion give great sound and versatility. Modeling is catching on like cell phones. You yourself own a modeling amp. There's just as good of tone available cheaper. It's progress.

I don't work for a modeling company. I follow the TB guidelines.

Time to set up some new filters. Yes I will remain silent to your badgering.

 

[cheezewiz]

Is that homeopathic medicine?
I only follow science and evidence based medicine.

What's wrong with getting evidence, and getting some measurements? No placebos, real thing.

For some reason measurements haven't been done. Even by those that portray themselves as neutral reviewers. This all rings of marketing hokum. I believe tube market is all marketing hokum, unless there's some actual studies otherwise. The anecdotal stories after anecdotal story do not equal evidence.

Why shouldn't there be alternative opinions to alternative solutions that in my opinion give great sound and versatility. Modeling is catching on like cell phones. You yourself own a modeling amp. There's just as good of tone available cheaper. It's progress.

I don't work for a modeling company. I follow the TB guidelines.

Time to set up some new filters. Yes I will remain silent to your badgering.

Buhbye.

 

[Chef]

Moderator Insert:
You guys can keep this thread open by being nice to each other, and disagreeing respectfully.
I'll be glad to shut'er down if you can't.

 

[JimmyM]

Is that homeopathic medicine?
I only follow science and evidence based medicine.

What's wrong with getting evidence, and getting some measurements? No placebos, real thing.

For some reason measurements haven't been done. Even by those that portray themselves as neutral reviewers. This all rings of marketing hokum. I believe tube market is all marketing hokum, unless there's some actual studies otherwise. The anecdotal stories after anecdotal story do not equal evidence.

Why shouldn't there be alternative opinions to alternative solutions that in my opinion give great sound and versatility. Modeling is catching on like cell phones. You yourself own a modeling amp. There's just as good of tone available cheaper. It's progress.

if i say that modeling can do a great job of copping the tones, it's because i have established credibility. i have experience with all sorts of amps, tube, ss and hybrid, over 35 years of in-the-field usage starting when i was 13. you have admitted many times to no such experience. so you really don't KNOW that modeling does as good as tube amps and that tube amp marketing is all hokum...you're just guessing.

 

[Count Bassie]

Why must he? People do all sorts of things without good or valid reasons. And part of demonstrating that one has good and valid reasons for upholding a particular position is disclosing one's interest (financial and otherwise) in the subject at hand. In my field (medicine), opinions and studies that are not accompanied by such disclosures are summarily dismissed as useless at best, and dangerous at worst.

People only do things that make sense to them for some reason. You might not get it- but its' not your reasoning, as arcane as it may appear to be. That's all. The guy may not demonstrate it for your satisfaction, and it may be flawed on paper. That's why we weigh and reason everything that comes our way... but this isn't a critical issue really- it's a casual conversation amongst a bunch of internet hang-outs!

By now, divisiveness and banter are the only reasons for starting a thread like this, which happen at least once a month, all end up the same way and ultimately get closed down. I suspect that this one is well on its way.

I don't know, I thought the original question was a pretty good one. After some of the interactions I've had in forums, I think people enjoy pulling a subject down and tearing into a perceived weakness. Funny how incomplete this kind of communication is if you get to meet the people you talk to.

 

[Count Bassie]

Note: I am aware that there are pros/ established players here too! But it's just a forum... take from/give it what you will.

 

[Chef]

Just cause I work a lot doesn't make my point of view valid from where you stand.
But, if someone isn't a working player, with "this and that various experience," it makes that opinion worth a lot less to me, from where I stand, to me, personally.

Otherwise, "you're just bench racing" as my car/motorcycle buddies say.

YMMV of course.

example:
I've read about *a lot* of gear here, and, based on opinions of people whom I respect and whose views and sears seem to align with mine most of the time, I've made purchases I instantly regretted thinking "man, I don't know what in the world those guys heard in that, cause I sure don't hear it."
I've also had pieces of gear that sounded fine at home, or at rehearsal, that were instant fails on stage or in the studio.

Again, YMMV on that.

 

[cheezewiz]

Just cause I work a lot doesn't make my point of view valid from where you stand.
But, if someone isn't a working player, with "this and that various experience," it makes that opinion worth a lot less to me, from where I stand, to me, personally.

Otherwise, "you're just bench racing" as my car/motorcycle buddies say.

YMMV of course.

Which is the whole point. Certain posters blather on about how modeling can replace tubes, but they have never played through a tube amp or done a side by side comparison, much less having any gigging experience, hence, no credibility.

 

[fokof]

Which is the whole point. Certain posters blather on about how modeling can replace tubes, but they have never played through a tube amp or done a side by side comparison, much less having any gigging experience, hence, no credibility.

I don't want to take a side but just post my POV on this.

As I posted earlier in this thread , it is my belief that tube amp adds distortion and that's what's pleasing to some ear.

I have tube gear and use it in studio situation

I also have a VB99 that I use in studio. (modeling device)

But I only bring my VB99 to all my gigs.

If I ever have a gig with roadies and have lots of budget , I'll probably use "the real things" but until then .......

 

[GrowlerBox]

moderator edited

 

[Tim1]

moderator edited

 

[GrowlerBox]

moderator edited

 

[seamonkey]

Just cause I work a lot doesn't make my point of view valid from where you stand.
But, if someone isn't a working player, with "this and that various experience," it makes that opinion worth a lot less to me, from where I stand, to me, personally.

Otherwise, "you're just bench racing" as my car/motorcycle buddies say.

YMMV of course.

example:
I've read about *a lot* of gear here, and, based on opinions of people whom I respect and whose views and sears seem to align with mine most of the time, I've made purchases I instantly regretted thinking "man, I don't know what in the world those guys heard in that, cause I sure don't hear it."
I've also had pieces of gear that sounded fine at home, or at rehearsal, that were instant fails on stage or in the studio.

Again, YMMV on that.

You play a lot so you must get the calls "The room needs and upright", and "We need somebody that can slap", but you have to clarify if it Rockabilly or funk. And you get the call "We need somebody that can sound like <some signature player>"
As anecdotal as it is, I've never heard "You got a tube amp?" They'll say the style of music, the players, the songs, the size of the room, the crowd, and if's there is FOH. Never heard the band leader care about tube. They do care if you take up too much stage space.

Then when it time to play how quickly can you adapt. Sometimes it hard driven tone at low volumes, and clean loud drones for the ballads. There's no time to play with knobs.

There's a lot of good things going on in the music biz, and some is trickling down to bass. It's the best time ever to be a bass player.

 

[Duke21]

Is that homeopathic medicine?
I only follow science and evidence based medicine.

What's wrong with getting evidence, and getting some measurements? No placebos, real thing.

For some reason measurements haven't been done. Even by those that portray themselves as neutral reviewers. This all rings of marketing hokum. I believe tube market is all marketing hokum, unless there's some actual studies otherwise. The anecdotal stories after anecdotal story do not equal evidence.

Why shouldn't there be alternative opinions to alternative solutions that in my opinion give great sound and versatility. Modeling is catching on like cell phones. You yourself own a modeling amp. There's just as good of tone available cheaper. It's progress.

I don't work for a modeling company. I follow the TB guidelines.

Time to set up some new filters. Yes I will remain silent to your badgering.

Look, modeling of the tube sound have come very far, and it is very good to hear from folks like JimmyM (which have vast experience with ALL sorts of amps) that tube modeling tone actually is that good today.

I for instance doesn't have any single tube, except the ones which light my house. I use only devices which utilize tube modeling, call it sansamp BDDI, Sansamp Oxford, Line6 basspod or Amplitube on iPad.
But I'll love to own a real tube amp. My stepson has a EBS T90 rig, thus 100W all tube head and 4x10 cab. This thing sound so great when it is cranked up, standing next to such an amp at work is pure magic.
The same I can say for the happy minutes I had on a Ampeg B15 from the early 70's, the Orange AD200Mk3, Ampeg SVT VR, VOX AC30 or a Laney Nexus.

Yes, sure, GK have great amps which have zero tubes, same goes to Hartke etc. But they all try to catch this magic tone, call it G.I.V.E or "valve circuit drive", they try damn hard.
Even the guy from G.K. (agedhorse) tells you things are not that trivial.
I can't see tube amps disappear, actually I see the opposite, as long as tube modeling gets that good, there will always be a demand for a real tube amp. You can see the tube modeling tube commercial!

 

[Chef]

Moderator Insert:

This has gone off way beyond the OP's original question.
Combine that with:
Tube vs ss or similar threads always end like this; people defending personal points of view well beyond civility.

thread closed.