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Is an 18 better than a 15?

#61
^ Just a good parrot - should we ever meet crackers are on you!

Addendum: a given driver is "beamier" than another one if it starts "beaming" at a lower frequency and/or with a steeper downward response curve*. In practice it sounds darker off-axis, when fed the same signal, even if both have similar responses down low.


Nth EDIT:
* for a given listening off-axis position, and/or, I suppose, with a steeper downward SPL curve at progressively wider angles for a given frequency affected by beaming
 
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#62
Sound is a pressure wave, so you hear based on the air pressure increasing and decreasing (at multiple frequencies), so you do not need to stand away from the cabinet to hear the bottom end. In fact, you are more likely to hear the fundamental (or at least what's being reproduced) because you are not hearing boundary reflections by standing out in the room. Outdoors, in a typical set-up you will hear 2 effective boundaries, the first being the ground, and the second being the result of the opposite stack (if left/right stacked) which appears like a (modulated) boundary.

Otherwise, mant things in this world that work quite well just simply wouldn't work at all.
 
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#63
I've had an EV SH-1803ER for quite a few years and it sounds pretty good for bass if you play it with enough power . I use a Powersoft K3 that puts out 5,200 watts. Is that enough juice Jimmy?
Really good full range speakers can sound good for bass, but you need EQ and some time to tweak them when setting up for a gig. The 1803 has an 18, a 6 inch mid with a 16 lb magnet and a small horn with a compression driver. It goes lower and higher than typical bass speakers, and its very smooth
 
#64
agedhorse said:
Sound is a pressure wave, so you hear based on the air pressure increasing and decreasing (at multiple frequencies), so you do not need to stand away from the cabinet to hear the bottom end. In fact, you are more likely to hear the fundamental (or at least what's being reproduced) because you are not hearing boundary reflections by standing out in the room. Outdoors, in a typical set-up you will hear 2 effective boundaries, the first being the ground, and the second being the result of the opposite stack (if left/right stacked) which appears like a (modulated) boundary.

Otherwise, mant things in this world that work quite well just simply wouldn't work at all.
Click to expand...
How long is the wavelength of a low B string? Or even an E on a 4 string? To really hear a speaker's low end, you need to be at least a wavelength away from it. Yes - 1/4 and 1/2 space loading boundary effects change the sound too.
 
#66
Gizmot said:
How long is the wavelength of a low B string? Or even an E on a 4 string? To really hear a speaker's low end, you need to be at least a wavelength away from it. Yes - 1/4 and 1/2 space loading boundary effects change the sound too.
Click to expand...

No, you do not. Put a pair of headphones on... do you hear the bass?
 
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#67
agedhorse said:
No, you do not. Put a pair of headphones on... do you hear the bass?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The wave doesn't magically appear or 'form' one wavelength from the speaker. It starts AT the speaker. It doesn't grow stronger or develop at any point in time once it leaves the speaker...it loses energy as the pressure wave pushes against air. It's a pressure wave, which is three dimensional, not some flat wave that will go over your head.
 
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#69
Sometimes forums create huge problems for folks they never knew they had :) So much is way overstated, I think.

I play several cabs live

112, 115, 212, 118 and 218. I love them all and they all work great in different ways. My main medium size cab lately is a DIY 118 with two mid drivers. I think it's terrific. The design and that particular combination of drivers work well together. Driver size doesn't mean a thing to me. I come up with design goals, then find the parts that work best to meet those goals and sometimes it actually works :)
 
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#72
azureblue said:
Jeez-people, go learn about W cabinets, subwoofers, and waveform lengths. A 32hz sine wave is about 35 feet long. To actually hear it, without hearing room bounce or half wave reflections, you need to be 35 feet away from the cabinet. In a room, what you hear most is half wave reflections, not the fundamental. Long ago I had a pair of Acoustic 370 W cabs. On stage, not a whole lot - mids and no highs, but out there in the audience, i was shaking tables and angering bartenders. I later got an EAW 10 cu, ft box that had an 18 in it. Great sound about 5 ft away from the box, but there was this one venue I played at and the mixing desk was 36 feet away from the stage. I liked to have killed to house engineer every time I hit a low B.

On stage you hear mostly the next harmonic up for the low end, but what is needed on stage is not what is needed for the audience. Any commercial sound system will show you that - they all sound like crap up close and great out in the field. I think I've used about any and all types of boxes, including an 18' in a Karlson (don't do that). and an Ampeg 18" amp - I miss that one bad - for soul and R&B it was killer. My best on stage sound was 4 15's, each in it's own 5 cu' ft box. Wonderful and even sound spread, and enough low end to take your breath away. and huge. I used 2 SVT bottoms and while they were loud as almighty there wasn't that much low end in the audience. Loud is one thing, but low end is something else. I settled on twelves because they sound good up close and make enough low end to make me happy.
Click to expand...
How is it that your headphones work, then?
 
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#73
As a bassist I've owned cabinets with 10"s, 12"s, and 15" speakers, I've never owned an 18".

As a drummer I've worked with bassists using 10", 12" and 15" speakers. I've yet to work with a bassist who used an 18", and I've been doing this since 1975.

Having said that, I did have an incident in the 1990's that let's me have an open mind regarding 18"s. One of my Crown DC300A power amps had a channel go out and through word of mouth I ended up having a guy who repaired amps as a side job fix it. When I picked up the amp we got to talking and he took me into his rehearsal studio where he had an old set of Rogers set up next to his bass amp. We ended up jamming for an hour or so. I don't even recall for sure what kind of bass he used, but the tone was really great.

When I complimented the sound, he gave the credit to his amp. I don't know what model it was, but it was an older Peavey combo with an 18". I remember being stunned by that news at the time.
 
#75
Audiokinesis makes two cabs with 18s in them - a TC118 (which I have and weighs in the low 40s) and a Hathor 1855. Check out the threads here for more info. They are no slouches at being full-range, let you hear the lower edge of your low notes, and all-in-all a different flavor of (very) good.
 
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