its worth it, not for the $50 jazz gigs in Manhatten, but for the fame. when i went to school it was about 5k per semester (not berklee) and that was bordering on too expensive. when my buddy when to school in the 70's jazz school was $12 per credit. that's more understandable. everything you learn at berklee can be learned on your own with some dedication and a private teacher. what you pay for is the degree, now, as a jazz musician (or any kind of performing musician for that matter) the degree is worthless. we are in a field where the goal is actually acquiring knowledge, as opposed to many other degrees where the goal is the piece of paper because you need to paper to enter into your career or further your education. you pay for the paper
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Is Berklee worth the money?
- Thread starter DanielleMuscato
- Start date
Talk about a Zombie thread - seven years old! Not everything is about ROR and money. Each person needs to decide for themselves if a college is worth the money. What is your goal, will the college you are looking at help you achieve your goal, is there a better way to achiever your goal?
I just spent about $25,000 on a Masters degree in theology that I will likely never use. I feel it was money well spent.
I just spent about $25,000 on a Masters degree in theology that I will likely never use. I feel it was money well spent.
7 years old? I shudder to think what they are charging now!! FWIW, I know 3 very good musicians who went there. 2 dropped out. All three pay their bills via day jobs (not real high paying), and play in bands for mad money, and the love of music. Worth it? Depends on the individual I'd say.
If you want to go to school for music, go to a University that gives you an accredited degree. Miami, North Texas, Belmont (here in Nashville), etc. At the schools I mentioned, you have other requirements that give you a degree you can use other than to play music. What else can you major in at Berklee? (rhetorical question. I already know the answer). My point is, if you're going to spend that much money, get a degree from a University that makes you learn other things as well that will be useful down the line. My experience at Belmont University (Roy Vogt was my bass instructor) included requirements in every subject. Commercial Music was my major, but the general education classes that I also had to take made it worth the money spent (and the piece of paper I got in the end). I got into Berklee, but chose not to go in favor of a school that has diverse programs other than music in case I changed my mind. I also felt that the commercial music program I was in was very well put together and let me choose the types of music I played in many cases. Roy heard me play the first time I had a lesson, and knew exactly what direction I needed to go in. He was so right it's kinda scary! Nothing I was tasked with learning was pointless. Whether it was music theory, improv theory, or music history, it was all important.
College has a @#$% ROI (return-on-investment) anymore. My kid pays the same for community college as I did for a state uni.
Private Schools are worse. Specialty Private Schools are worse still. Music Specialty Private Schools cost a jillion dollars and musicians are almost universally poor. Their ROI is almost as good as a Big Mac Investment with Bathroom Return.
You have to pay $$$$$ to get to the "best of the best" of anything. It can be argued (not universally) that Berklee is the best of the best. Paying for the name "Berklee" is what's happening, at least in part. There will almost certainly be no monetary profit from that investment, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
That having been said, I personally wouldn't attend there with someone else's talent. Please take this with a grain of salt, 'cause I use Real Books (IIRC Berklee-produced) on a weekly basis.
Private Schools are worse. Specialty Private Schools are worse still. Music Specialty Private Schools cost a jillion dollars and musicians are almost universally poor. Their ROI is almost as good as a Big Mac Investment with Bathroom Return.
You have to pay $$$$$ to get to the "best of the best" of anything. It can be argued (not universally) that Berklee is the best of the best. Paying for the name "Berklee" is what's happening, at least in part. There will almost certainly be no monetary profit from that investment, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
That having been said, I personally wouldn't attend there with someone else's talent. Please take this with a grain of salt, 'cause I use Real Books (IIRC Berklee-produced) on a weekly basis.
Lots of Berklee guys around here.......most of them on Craigslist begging for $50 gigs...........
Of course not, unless your goal is to make $10 an hour in some retail job while paying off a $200k debt. I don't feel any sympathy for people who went to music school and got shafted by the real world... market research takes what, 15 minutes on Google? If you go to music school, you are either in denial or have some SERIOUS connections as far as a music career goes. We all want to spend 4 years playing and learning about music but it just isn't a viable major anymore.
Perhaps unrelated, but one of my high school pals got a bachelors in computer animation from Fullsail in Florida, which is supposed to be one of the top rated schools for that major. That was about 2008 or 2009 when he graduated and he still cannot find anything close to a steady gig in his field. His problem? He has absolutely terrible networking and business skills. He failed a Best Buy sales job interview, he hasn't gotten himself out and had a real job, he just went to college after graduating and has no experience working a real job.
I'm assuming it can be the same for music degrees. Having the paper might give you plenty of knowledge, but application and experience are FAR more useful than just have the paper. There's more than one way to skin a cat, but I think practice, getting a solid teacher if need be, and networking is the way to get yourself out there.
I'm assuming it can be the same for music degrees. Having the paper might give you plenty of knowledge, but application and experience are FAR more useful than just have the paper. There's more than one way to skin a cat, but I think practice, getting a solid teacher if need be, and networking is the way to get yourself out there.
No. It's not the same for music. It's hard to make a living playing music no matter how good you are at networking. Your friend with the computer animation degree must be really bad at communicating if he can't get a computing gig.
Yeah I agree, networking skills doesn't equate to instant success, my main point was that just like most creative fields (or arguably most career fields), kids rarely get a degree and hop right into their dream job with zero real world experience; or at least an internship of some kind. 4 years doing session or backing musician work will get you much farther than 4 years of college studying music performance. Both together are fantastic, but I rarely hear of a music degree being the golden key to get your foot in the door of fame lol. Agreed on music being a hard living too, definitely have respect for the guys that do it full-time...it's not easy.
Most who make a living playing music are unsung heroes in the studio, or sidemen for major acts where you aren't in the spotlight, so fame isn't a realistic goal. Music school can prepare you for making a living in the unsung way, but you still have to network more than with any other profession I know of (other than dealing with other arts like film making, acting, painting, or writing). Real world experience should start long before you go to school for music, and shouldn't stop while you're attending. Getting out there and getting to know the right people is the key. Music school gives you the skills to do the job, (and I believe session and live musicians should have some music education if they want to be in demand and put food on the table), but networking during and after that education is integral.
Hopefully this isn't too far off topic, but when I played in a country band, I got a chance to open for some nationals; plus, I went and saw some good country shows. Not once did I ever leave thinking, "Oh man! I really need to hit the woodshed after witnessing that!" While there are some serious monsters in the Nashville studios like Michael Rhodes, IME, the cats going out on the road aren't any better than me. Networking and being in the right place at the right time (and not having bad habits) must really be important in that town, hence why there are Berklee cats on CL begging for the $50 gigs. Back when Dick McVey had his musician's referral service, I was going to post an ad and see if I could find a touring band out of Nashville. Now in hindsight, I'm glad I didn't and decided to focus on a day gig career instead. Different strokes 'n all.
The same thing could be said of many modern genres of music. Rarely am I wowed by the bass lines of most modern songs. I don't think that the genre of music has any bearing on the Beeklee "cats".
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I know several people who pay their mortgage solely by playing/teaching music. I know several people who graduated Berklee. These are separate groups.
I went to two well know universities for bs and ms in engineering. Got my early career well established, then in my 30s went and took music at night after work at local university for fun. Play in two bands and still work making some money on the music side too. Possibly to balance two careers.
