Is Fender a scam?

[Abaroa]

Last time I saw a Squier it said "by Fender" on the headstock... so they are really just two separate product lines.

Even when Squiers are very nice and playable, the quality of their components is not as good as the Fenders. This has nothing to do with where they are made, build quality in Indonesia, Japan or Mexico can be the same if the factory is well set-up and workers are paid a decent local wage. Even when the components are not as good,they do the job as good as most of us need them to...

. Does a Squier do it for you? Great, it means you are part of the market the Squier product line was created for... Do you find Fenders better for whatever reason?... Then you fit another demographic which rather have Fenders... thats the reason huge corporations like Fender have many brands and product lines with a variety of choices for the consumer.

Its about you having choices, not about a Scam...

 

[Mastermold]

Yeah some people get along just fine on cheap instruments, cheap food, cheap cars, cheap booze, cheap women, etc. Doesn't mean the more expensive stuff is a "scam" however, it's just a reflection on what is good enough for you personally.

 

[Baird6869]

Yup. Totally a scam. Just unloaded two American deluxes for one Elrick. Best decision ever. Never going back to Fender. Until I forget I don't like fender that is.

Your opinion, but MIA Fenders have been the benchmark for 60 years. Don't think People have been scammed for 60 years.

Strange that you don't see most rich musicians playing $10,000 Foderas OR $250 Squiers. Most just use $1299 MIA Fenders. Not bashing Elrick, Roscoe, Modulus (my favorite), etc., but these basses are rarely seen in the real world.

If Squiers all (or most) sounded better than MIA Fenders, why are they rarely toured (sorry, Fall Out Boy doesn't count.) or used in big studios?

Not bashing Squier (I own 3 of them).

 

[superdick2112]

Yeah some people get along just fine on cheap instruments, cheap food, cheap cars, cheap booze, cheap women, etc. Doesn't mean the more expensive stuff is a "scam" however, it's just a reflection on what is good enough for you personally.

This, ^ FTW!

IMHO, life is way too short for cheap food, booze, women, cars and basses.

 

[pacojas]

lots & lots of laughs tonight!!!

we got Fender love in all sizes. they are the most popular brand for many reasons. they are one of the best you can get and almost everybody wants one. i can go on and on about my Fender, but it's way more fun reading "Fender vs the other guy" threads.

(please continue)

 

[widdelywaahhkid]

... couple thoughts ... for starters, I sure hope you didn't pay $1400 for your 2008 American Standard ...

... your Squier P Spec, just happens to use my favorite profile Jazz neck of ANY bass that I have ever played, at any price (I have 3 of them)

... if you start to compare the basses, side by side, you will see an amazing difference in quality of each specific component ... there is no comparison in the quality of tuners, bridge, pots, even the pickguard ... one is probably agathis, the other probably alder body ... now if we take that a step farther, and part the bass out on the used market, you will really see the $$ value difference of each component .. that '08 AS neck, will fetch more money than the entire Squier parted out ... so, in the real picture of value, there is no doubt in the quality difference of the components

... with that said on the component issue, then it is left to preferential items ... which feels better?? ... which sounds better?? ... which one can I take out and not worry about, etc ...

... I have three Squier Standards currently, and owned probably a dozen more at times weeding through them to find the ones I have ... I have one that is only 8#, and two others under 8.5# .. all three have the thinner body thickness used on the Fender Road Worn Series (quite rare), and that incredible profile neck I spoke of .... I enjoy playing them more than anything I have owned, and they sound good ... but, I have others (currently MIM Classic Series basses) that I usually take out for shows ... they seem to fit the mix better ...

... bottom line, you have a bass you prefer that is worth what you paid for it (used price) ... and you have a bass that is worth what you would have paid for it, if you bought it used .... so play whichever you prefer, but they both have their value for what they are ...

i paid 700 for my 08 fender am std. worth the money. but in general. i just dont think a 2012 am, std j bass is worth 14 hun all said and done. thats just my opinion though

 

[widdelywaahhkid]

Yeah some people get along just fine on cheap instruments, cheap food, cheap cars, cheap booze, cheap women, etc. Doesn't mean the more expensive stuff is a "scam" however, it's just a reflection on what is good enough for you personally.

yeah, but i dont think you are seeing the point here. what im saying is...i think squier has really upped their game. I think they are pretty comparable to fenders. Unfortunately..I am a huge fender fan. they have a ton of history and fame in the name alone. I can understand why they are expensive. the thing is..should they really be as expensive as they are? i really believe the quality between the two is defiantly different. but words different? i really don't believe they are.

 

[Munjibunga]

So what's the difference between the CNC machines that make Squiers and the ones that make U.S. Fenders? Do they use better copper in the windings of the pickups in U.S. Fenders? I'd say buy the bass that fits your budget best and sounds best to your ears. If it turns out to be a Squier, good on you. If you have enough money and feel better buying a more expensive bass, go for it. There's something out there for everyone.

 

[Craig_S]

The claim is the same. "Squiers are absolutely every bit as good as the American instruments." Isn't that what we are talinkg about? Or are you saying it is not the same because it was true then but isn't true now?

I'm saying it isn't true now because of the definite differences in the parts. In the early 80's, the Japanese Squier parts were the same as their American counterparts. Initially the Squier line was intended to be lower cost, only because it was made over seas for a lower labor cost. They were just Japanese Fenders made to the same standard as the American instruments. Now, they are lower cost because they are made of lesser materials and for a lower labor cost. That doesn't mean you won't find some of them that sound good and play well.

 

[pacojas]

hey widdely,...

go out and play some of the boutique brands and tell us what you think they are worth. i personally think the $1399. Fender is a much better value than a $2499. Sadowsky! i actually spent a whole day hopping from shop to shop to sample as many high-end basses. everytime i played a so-called "Fender Killer", i found an MIA or CS Fender that just brought it!!!

if you don't see value in a certain make or model maybe your reference is skewed or biased. the $3500. Roscoe was AMAZING, but the $3100. CS Jazz is the one i'll be yearnin'....

love, peace, & chicken grease!

 

[Showdown]

the advice I've been giving my friends who have these issues:
1- get them both professionally set up and then
2- start recording yourself your practice your living room noodles, band practice you name it


See if you feel the same. there are definitely some squiers that are just incredible, but a find a lot of people just like the looser action and convince themselves that it sounds better because it feels better

What do you mean by "looser action"?

 

[punkjazzben]

Yeah some people get along just fine on cheap instruments, cheap food, cheap cars, cheap booze, cheap women, etc. Doesn't mean the more expensive stuff is a "scam" however, it's just a reflection on what is good enough for you personally.

Yeah. Screw those people of low socio-economic status. Being poor is a horrible excuse for bad taste... right chaps? RIGHT!!



But seriously now. I've never played an American Fender that was worth x2 or x3 times as much as a MIM or Squier. Some might have been marginally better, but not $1000+ better.

YMMV and all that.

 

[Thrill-House]

One thing i learned very early on in my guitar and bass playing career is to never judge a guitar based on its place of manufacture. While i wouldnt say MIA Fenders are a scam, i dont think the "Made in America" label holds nearly as much weight as it used to. Not because MIAs have gotten worse (though some may disagree), but because the quality of mexican, Korean, Indonesian and especially Japanese instruments have gotten much better while staying in the same general price range at the same time. There are tons of fantastic instruments coming out of countries many players assume would be trash.

 

[One Drop]

They're just not that good and that includes the custom shop. My favorite fenders are the pieces of each junk bass hanging on the wall of my studio. It gives me something to start a conversation about when all else is going well. If they're that good why are 80- 90% of bassist that own them always changing something out on them to make them playable. As a luthier and owner of a guitar repair shop, I like the work fender basses give me but I like it even better when someone with a high dollar fender sells it to come and buy one of my custom basses. Fender players enjoy many inconsistencies from their prized instruments. I made a cool doorstop from an old fender bridge, now that's recycling with a purpose! Sorry fender guys but its the truth from where I sit.

Poorly disguised advertising for your own work. That's the truth from where I sit.

 

[pacojas]

Poorly disguised advertising for your own work. That's the truth from where I sit.

+1

(i wasn't sure how to address this guy, so i just ignored him)

 

[soulman969]

It's not crazy. Squier has really upped their game over the last few years, and to be quite frank, they hit it out of the park with the Classic Vibe Basses. Made in China, but baby, those things are consistently excellent, maybe nearly as good as the MIJ Squiers of the 80s.

This is exactly what I would say about the CV line. IMHO those basses are the best products Squier offers.

I've been playing MIA Jazz and P Basses for over 30 years and the CV I play now could stand up to any of them. There's very little if anything I could find to improve on it.

There may be some small differences in the quality level of some of the components of an MIA but not enough to justify a $1000 plus price differential. In a band mix you'd never be able to tell them apart.

 

[Darnell Jones]

Your opinion, but MIA Fenders have been the benchmark for 60 years. Don't think People have been scammed for 60 years.

Strange that you don't see most rich musicians playing $10,000 Foderas OR $250 Squiers. Most just use $1299 MIA Fenders. Not bashing Elrick, Roscoe, Modulus (my favorite), etc., but these basses are rarely seen in the real world.

If Squiers all (or most) sounded better than MIA Fenders, why are they rarely toured (sorry, Fall Out Boy doesn't count.) or used in big studios?

Not bashing Squier (I own 3 of them).

Popularity = quality?

 

[Darnell Jones]

For those that feel being made in America is better. Could you take Indonesians and bring them to America and get the better quality or do you have to use real Americans?

 

[cnltb]

Let me just start off by saying i own a fender american standard jazz bass. and it is a great bass! thats really no my qualm though. My problem is. I just recently went out to buy a decent, as well as cheap backup bass. so i ended up getting a squier p bass special standard. and as far as i know they do not make those in the squier line as of currently. (I have owned about four or so squiers, and they have all been well built, fanstastic sounding well built solid as a rock basses). Ok, so i pick up this bass for about $225. not a bad price. So here is my beef. I prefer the sound and over all play ability that my squier has rather than my 14 hundred dollar fender am. std. Is there something wrong with this picture? Am i just crazy? Or is there really not too much of a difference between a squier made in Indonesia bass and a made in the USA fender bass? Are we just paying for the name? and are we just paying for the fact that it is made in the USA?!?! I feel crazy saying all this, and i feel like i will probably get trolled for it. however, i don't think i am that far off here. id say the only real difference between the two basses is...the fact that my american j bass has a graphite reinforced neck, and it has better pick ups...but honestly, how much better are they really? the bridge pickup on my fender sounds almost identical to the squier. am i missing something here? am i out of line? are people just that brain washed fanboys, by the fender name?

what do you think?!?

I can't see anything crazy in what you are saying.
There is nothing wrong with that picture either.
With some US stuff there seems to be a lot more bravado than actual substance, making such a big deal of where it's made. Who else does that?
In the case of fender I'd go Japanese any day.

 

[UK_Lefty]

Have you taken the USA Fender for a pro set up? That may make a difference.
I haven't been fortunate enough to own a USA Fender, but I agree some expensive basses can disappoint. I had a £1,300 Warwick at one point that I felt was not as playable and didn't have as good a tone as an MIM Fender J.