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Is G&L wiring deliberately sloppy?

bpabon

bpabon

May 1, 2017
123
158
Massachusetts
#1
Learning to replace some wiring in my new (to me) L-1500, I'm studying the famous diagram and it has an assortment of ground connections:
1000016010.jpg

I was taught that all grounds should lead to the output jack, maybe using a ground bar to minimize heating the pots.
Is this meant to be some kind of "star ground"?

It's an honest noob question that I know is adjacent to a mega topic; for starters, https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ja...g-images-warning.159191/page-52#post-29545707
I didn't find a discussion specific to the canonical G&L design.
 
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#2
Most relatable thread title ever! They are a bowl of spaghetti under the cavity cover.

If the cavity is shielded you can indeed connect the grounds to the shielding as long as they ultimately connect to the output jack ground. You are correct about the star ground acting as a buss for the many grounds, not overheating the pots is a great idea.

My guess is that it is cheaper to pay someone to solder grounds to pots than to pay someone to properly shield the instrument. Leo was cool like that. I’m just a well read noob, so hopefully a real expert comes by and straightens us both out if we got the wrong idea.
 
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#4
I don't believe G&Ls wiring is deliberately sloppy, but G&Ls are (OK, were) factory made, production-line basses so if the bass passed its QC checks and works, it gets shipped out. Star grounding isn't needed in a bass or guitar. star grounding is important in amplifiers where ground conductors carry significant current.

This diagram shows the preamp battery as "always on" and shows a standard TS jack instead of a TRS jack. :rollno: From the diagram, it appears the pots are grounded to each other via shielding foil inside the control cavity, just like Fender basses. If you're suspecting "pot grounding" is your issue, make sure the nuts holding the pots to the bass are snug to the pots make firm contact with the shielding foil.

What problem are you trying to solve?
 
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#5
Sid the Kid said:
Most relatable thread title ever! They are a bowl of spaghetti under the cavity cover.

If the cavity is shielded you can indeed connect the grounds to the shielding as long as they ultimately connect to the output jack ground. You are correct about the star ground acting as a buss for the many grounds, not overheating the pots is a great idea.

My guess is that it is cheaper to pay someone to solder grounds to pots than to pay someone to properly shield the instrument. Leo was cool like that. I’m just a well read noob, so hopefully a real expert comes by and straightens us both out if we got the wrong idea.
Click to expand...
Never encountered a G&L with any shielding from the factory! Which I always thought was pretty weak considering the price of US models.
 
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#7
It's weird when people make jokes while others also revel in a good companies demise. It kinda says something about those people and the state of a community in general. "Yeah, USE to be sloppy.... maybe if they hadn't been so sloppy they might have stayed in business RIGHT GUYS!?!??! HURURURHRUHRUHRUHRUHRUHR, people could have KEPT THEIR JOBS IN THIS GARBAGE ECONOMY, HHURUHURHURHUHRUHRUHRUHURURH!!!!!" /majorf'kneyeroll
 
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#8
MojoPin said:
It's weird when people make jokes while others also revel in a good companies demise. It kinda says something about those people and the state of a community in general. "Yeah, USE to be sloppy.... maybe if they hadn't been so sloppy they might have stayed in business RIGHT GUYS!?!??! HURURURHRUHRUHRUHRUHRUHR, people could have KEPT THEIR JOBS IN THIS GARBAGE ECONOMY, HHURUHURHURHUHRUHRUHRUHURURH!!!!!" /majorf'kneyeroll
Click to expand...
francis.png
 
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#9
Crater said:
This diagram shows the preamp battery as "always on" and shows a standard TS jack instead of a TRS jack. :rollno:
Click to expand...
I think that the actual guitar has a trs jack, indicated by green numerals 1 and 2:
1000016015.jpg

Crater said:
What problem are you trying to solve?
Click to expand...
Originally, I went in to replace the battery and clean the badly corroded terminals. Then replace the degraded foam. A touch of spray the clean the scratchy pots.
Next, I noticed a bit of hum on the bass on both sides of the center detent and lots of play.
Finally, the preamp out wire broke free at the switch...
So I feel compelled to restore the electronics to greatness.
 
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#11
All joking aside, I appreciate the comments and the validation of the community. As much as I'm disappointed in G&L management, I mean no disrespect to their engineers. I hope the photos add value.
---
PS I have a LOT to say about the toxic relationship between accounting and operations, along with optimistic advice for folks bootstrapping tech businesses.
 
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#12
MojoPin said:
It's weird when people make jokes while others also revel in a good companies demise. It kinda says something about those people and the state of a community in general. "Yeah, USE to be sloppy.... maybe if they hadn't been so sloppy they might have stayed in business RIGHT GUYS!?!??! HURURURHRUHRUHRUHRUHRUHR, people could have KEPT THEIR JOBS IN THIS GARBAGE ECONOMY, HHURUHURHURHUHRUHRUHRUHURURH!!!!!" /majorf'kneyeroll
Click to expand...

I think you added the second part. They were just commenting on the state of here and now.
 
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#13
MultiScaleMale said:
I think you added the second part. They were just commenting on the state of here and now.
Click to expand...
The state of here and now could mean those that have lost their jobs haven't found new ones and are struggling, I'm sure they would love to see these posts while they are in between filling out resumes and reading rejection emails. You people have no clue how bad the job market is right now for alot of people apparently and it shows.
 
#14
MojoPin said:
Yeah, it's HILARIOUS when people with families lose their jobs while gas is at $5.50.... HILARIOUS, they are gonna love those food stamps RIGHT GUYS!!?!?!??!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::D:):D:laugh::laugh::roflmao::woot::hyper::bassist: :rolleyes: Maybe grow a heart Francis?
Click to expand...
Well, if you are looking to be angry about people commenting on the reality of G&L being out of business and trying to inject some levity in the situation, I think you'll find a whole lot more going on in the world of greater importance to also be upset about. Hopefully you have a sense of humor that can help you negotiate your way through this world.

**Edited for spelling.
 
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#15
MojoPin said:
The state of here and now could mean those that have lost their jobs haven't found new ones and are struggling, I'm sure they would love to see these posts while they are in between filling out resumes and reading rejection emails. You people have no clue how bad the job market is right now for alot of people apparently and it shows.
Click to expand...

Again, you're playing the victim card and fabricating a situation to be offended about
 
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#18
MojoPin said:
And again, you are completely missing my point and creating a narrative around it that makes me out to be the bad guy, typical from this community but hey, I don’t know what I expected. You don’t think people from their bass department might frequent this forum? I mean REALLY?!?!? My point about a guy taking 5 mins to peruse his favorite bass forum in between filling out applications and reading rejection letters and then reading this is a COMPLETELY viable scenario with one look at the heavy weights in this industry that already come here. I’m not saying the people making the joke are necessarily bad people, but then again they also sound like the people that will say it’s a travesty when Truth Social is shut down but it’s all yuks funnsies when G&L (Leo’s 3rd gig/company I might add) gets canned though good luthiers with families lose their jobs isn’t part of the “joke”. A little awareness can prevent jokes that are in poor taste even though it wasn’t necessarily meant to be.
Click to expand...

Ok, we're on different wavelengths. Now I'm a Truth Social frequenter? Good luck in your world. Bye.
 
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#19
Plectrum72 said:
Well, if you are looking to be angry about people commenting on the reality of G&L being out of business and trying to inject some levity in the situation, I think you'll find a whole lot more going on in the world of greater importance to also be upset about. Hopefully you have a sense of humor that can help you negotiate your way through this world.

**Edited for spelling.
Click to expand...
It’s hilarious that a bad joke makes me out to be the person “looking to be offended” when all of you should be kinda sad when thinking about G&L, on top of people losing their jobs, there is a lot of heritage lost if that company never comes back, that was Leo’s 3rd and last company and they made great instruments that evolved Leo’s designs into the future in a meaningful and musical way. I should be shocked that it was even posted but the try hard edge lords on this forum hardly ever think before they post so here we are anyway, I’m done…. Yuk it up bois.
 
#20
Some early G&L's have a brass plate on the floor of the cavity which can be soldered to.

The issue I have with the early G&L wiring is that the wire gauge they used is so slender. I've had several instances where a wire will just break off of it's solder point (40 + years after the bass was manufactured). I don't know what gauge they used, maybe 24 or smaller.

I used to re-solder the broken wires, but now I replace them with fresh 22 gauge wire. Keeping the color the same.

I haven't gotten to the point where I'm preemptively replacing wires before they break off. I'm still just chasing after the breaks when they happen.

I remember looking at those basses when I heard G&L closed and thinking: Dang, you all were already choice, now you're going to be collectible too.
 
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