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Is it possible to teach "Groove"?

Is it possible to teach "Groove"?

  • No, groove is unteachable and undefinable, you either have it or you don't.

    Votes: 43 33.1%

  • Yes, groove can be usefully defined, analyzed and communicated constructively.

    Votes: 87 66.9%
  • Total voters
    130
#21
Yes it is possible to teach it. Even if people may not completely "feel the groove", good skills allow to "fake it".

I played with a few borderline-autistic guys, I am not sure they "felt the groove" but their precise knowledge of music allowed them to play super groovy stuff like salsa music or Afrobeat in a totally legit way. A little bit like a very well programmed beat on Protools.
 
#22
I think yes.
Maybe sort of like in a drum circle. .... so maybe instead of talking about it just invite someone to play a groove over and over again. I guess try playing together until they "get into the groove" ...hmmm for some reason that sounded to me like late 80's! lol
 
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#27
There are the very few that can play almost as soon as they get an instrument in their hands. Like Buddy Rich or Glenn Campbell.

There are those that get musical schooling at an early age, either from parents or church or teachers and become great players. Flea?

There are those who devote themselves intensely to learning their instrument as teenagers or older and in a few years, become phenomenal players like Hendrix , Wes Montgomery, Charlie Parker, Jimmie Smith...

But the vast majority have neither phenomenal talent or total devotion to their instrument and flounder along to some degree. These are the folks that could really benefit from formalized instruction to make up for the tume already gone by.

Groove is a musical skill. It can be taught if the student has the proper skills. Being able to read and use a metronome would be a big help.
 
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#28
I didn't vote because I felt neither option was entirely correct. Yes, groove can be taught by example, by learning bass lines to songs with a killer groove, and mostly by playing with other people a lot.

But it cannot be usefully defined in abstract, conceptual terms like, for instance, the major scale or dotted eight notes can. You can discuss a number of concepts like playing ahead, on top, and behind the beat. You can discuss allowing the time to breathe a bit along with dynamics. But groove is a gestalt; it is more than the sum of its parts and some part of it is undefinable and in the end, ineffable. It's part of what makes music so amazing, there is a transcendental component to it when it is done well.

At least that's how I feel about it.
 
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#29
My unprovable theory on this is, most of the people who are trying to be good pocket players and have a 'groove', don't really have total control of their instrument. If you can't get around the neck and know how to get to where you need to be... even if you hesitate for a microsecond.... you'll not find that groove.
 
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#31
mambo4 said:
Just curious what the statistics of belief are on this.
For the record my belief is yes,
but I get the impression that the majority think no.
Click to expand...

Yes/No/It Depends

This is the old nature vs nurture question. I believe each person has a certain degree of talent that they are born with. Some are prodigies who have an intrinsic mastery of grove, and some are extremely rhythmically challenged and can never achieve even the most basic groove. Most people are somewhere in the middle and have the ability to listen and learn.

Creating and maintaining a pocket is complex and varies by style. It can be helpful if the pocket one is trying to recreate is analyzed and defined so each person involved knows his or her role. In other words, who pushes and who pulls, where do the rhythmic tensions occur, and how much tension is required. Sometimes you have to lay way back on the beat to create an authentic feel. The first time you try this it can seem impossible, but it gets easier with practice, so of course one can learn.
 
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#33
IamGroot said:
Which is?
Click to expand...
That what Victor Wooten might have said quoted with no context means jack. The metronome teaches you consistent time but not necessarily groove. Sure if your groove is good your time probably is too but having consistent meter does not by any means guarantee good groove.

He's been around here a while and I'm guessing @mambo4 is a pretty good player who's asking more as teacher than for himself. If I'm right about that (and even if I'm not) suggesting the metronome is only helpful with an explanation of how it's improved your or your student's groove. "Because Vic sez so" isn't anymore useful than a $250 power cord.
 
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#34
I think if the tiniest of sparks is there it can be fanned into a flame with patience and care.

I don't think you can instill it from scratch. Unless the person either has it, or comes to realize it on their own, theres not much you can do.

I used to think there was no such thing as a person utterly devoid of rhythm or totally tone deaf. But I've since come to reluctantly think there may be a few out there. They're extremely rare. But they definitely exist.
 
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#36
Like any skill, there is a tiny minority who are born geniuses, a majority of those who can be taught to competently execute the skill, and another small minority of those who are hopeless. I'd like to think that I'm majority who can be taught - and that I've actually learned.
 
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#38
Can groove be taught? Yes. No. Argh! I don't know! Maybe, to the extent that you can explain it, you can teach it. But only to people who get it.

I've played with a lot of guitarists and a few keyboard players. Most were good. A few were excellent. But a couple (who didn't last long) had no sense of rhythm. At all. I remember the frustration of one particular practice session where we were trying to learn a new song. We played the guitarist a little syncopated beat and he played the right chords but in a mechanical "chink-a-chink-a-chink-a-chink" beat, and just didn't/couldn't hear the difference. Some people are just so rhythm-impared that, even if you can teach it, they will not learn it.

"Everybody talking, talking pretty hard. Everybody talking 'bout singing from the heart.
If you want my opinion, it doesn't mean a thing if you haven't got that ability to swing."
Thomas Dolby - The Ability To Swing (Aliens Ate My Buick, 1988)
 
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#39
Jeff Bonny said:
That what Victor Wooten might have said quoted with no context means jack. The metronome teaches you consistent time but not necessarily groove. Sure if your groove is good your time probably is too but having consistent meter does not by any means guarantee good groove.

He's been around here a while and I'm guessing @mambo4 is a pretty good player who's asking more as teacher than for himself. If I'm right about that (and even if I'm not) suggesting the metronome is only helpful with an explanation of how it's improved your or your student's groove. "Because Vic sez so" isn't anymore useful than a $250 power cord.
Click to expand...
Well you may have said in a few paragraphs what i said in a sentence.

If you dont have good time, you wont have good groove. You use a metronome to check your time and fix problems. Vic did a video on using the metrome for exactly this.
 

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