Is My Bandmate Being Unreasonable?

[Dark Star Wars]

I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW

 

[JonathanPDX]

You can't help someone who does not want to be helped. If he was actually open to suggestions and looking for advice and input, AND if you had enough of a relationship or history for him to be worth that investment of time and energy, then maybe you could try and explain why things aren't working.

It sounds like he's not that guy and this is not that situation. Any more energy you expend will be lost to the void with no return. You know it's not working, you are not enjoying it, and you aren't getting paid. If there's no future then the best course of action is to walk away.

Having a musical outlet that sucks isn't necessarily better than having no outlet at all. It may also devour energy that you could be spending finding or creating a better situation for yourself.

 

[pepj]

Go do something else.
Find other people.
If one isn't cutting it..go look for somewho is at least a step on and up.
Do that everytime...it will help you improve yourself.
imv.

 

[fretno]

Move on. Cheers

 

[tpaul]

He has a vision. He wants you to trust and follow. You know he's going to fail. Get out so you can both have a chance to get where you want to go. If he fails, at least you won't be the person who held him back from fulfilling his vision.

 

[MCS4]

In my opinion, the fact that you don't think a person's originals are good does not make it unreasonable for them to want or even demand to play them in their band. To the contrary, if this is a person whose goal in music is to write and play originals, it is unreasonable to expect them to do otherwise just because you don't want to do so.

At the same time, you personally have no obligation to play this person's originals or to even be in a band with them if you don't like the tunes. It sounds to me like the two of you just have different preferences and goals, and you're getting into tension because you are mutually trying to get the other to do something they don't want to do, so the end result is probably the two of you each finding bandmates that more truly fit your desires.

 

[humbuckaroo]

Cut your losses and get a new band together.

 

[backin82]

I don't think your bandmate is being unreasonable. You each just have slightly different goals/expectations. Nothing wrong with that. It may just not be a good fit for either of you.

Depending on where you live, who you know, your technical abilities, etc...you may consider looking for a better fit elsewhere.

 

[Tomek Worek]

I don't know man, dont you feel like you are holding him back? Regardless of the songs quality, if the guy has written, worked hard on and perfected his originals, it is perfectly reasonable for him to want to be able to play them at some point. If he has wanted to do this for a couple of YEARS now, and you kept him playing covers, even though he has been clear about moving the project in a different direction, and you haven't even told him the reason (i.e. you dont believe the originals are gonna cut it), dont you think this is a little insincere / manipulative on your part? I mean, he is your friend.

As for the part where be talks about whether or not you "deserve" to sing more based on your reliability, that is definitely not nice from him. Also, I do not know what the band dynamics are - is he a leader? Is it his project, or was it more of a democratic group where every one gets and vote, and he is trying to hijack it? Because if so, then yes, he is being unreasonable. But if he's got a vision he wants to follow, and is looking for people who want to join in on that vision - if you are not that person, just tell him, man. No point in trying to "nudge" him in the direction of playing only covers, as that is clearly not what he wants - even if this is your only creative outlet, this kind of behavior is, as I said, kind of manipulative.

So yeah, in my opinion, just lay the cards on the table clearly - tell him you are not interested in playing his originals, but you value your hang and the cover band. Maybe he will want to continue with the cover band, while pursuing his vision separately, maybe not - but right now, neither of you will be happy, and both trying to rope the other one into doing something they don't want to do. Nobody's fault, just a different set of goals - but it seems to me at the moment he is the only one communicating his clearly.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

Cut your losses and get a new band together.

Probably geographic in my case, but it wasnt easy at all to join/ form a band that can actually get four hours of stuff. Then actually kake it into some kind of venue. I learned that lesson after my very first band ended.

 

[oldcatfish]

I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW

I also suggest quitting. If you stay, you’ll likely lose your friendship with him, because things that are causing conflict now, will probably only get worse, as will your stress. If you’re tactful in the way that you quit, you may be able to stay friends, if that’s what you want.

 

[SpiderBass1965]

Get out while you can. Pickup the pieces and move on. There will be other opportunities.

 

[DJ Bebop]

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear and you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.

You don't like his original songs and no matter how well they are played they are not going over, from what you can tell. Yet this is what he wants to do with your supporting him and his vision.

You want to do more cover tunes because you think it would make for a better draw and a better playing experience for you. Yet that is what he doesn'want to do, it's not his vision.

You two are working against cross-purposes. All that will do is end in frustration. You either need to buy into his vision if you want to continue to play with him, or cut it loose which would only be fair to both him and you and try to find some other players and start again.

How do the other players in the band feel? They may be a source of other players if his gig doesn't pan out

 

[Geogio]

I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers... The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

...and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********...

"I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. Yada yada yada

____________ The texts start off - yada, yada, yada

LONG TEXTS BELOW

Start your own band, your own dream, let him know, give him 90 days (or 60, or 30). Put it writing.... And after the specified timeframe if he still needs your services... hire a lawyer for the contract specifics.

 

[lordradish]

I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW

You're playing with an amateur and a hack. Move on and be pickier next time.

 

[steve_ss]

My serious answer... Life is short, your time here is important, move on to another project that makes you happier. If you and Rick can still be friends and not band mates, great. If he gets upset and says goodbye, then so be it.

My funny answer... It's stuff like this that makes me so happy I suck as a bass player and will never have enough guts, fortitude, or talent to play in a band.

 

[wjcstp]

I’m not a psychologist or anything, but there seems to be a fair amount of anxiety in his side of that text exchange. These originals are (understandably) important to him and he wants to make a serious run at putting them out there.

If his songs are not your jam it’s time to part ways and find or assemble another band that you want to play with. Wish him luck, offer to keep him in mind for sharing a bill in the future, but you aren’t doing either of you a service by continuing in the same band together.

 

[wilberthenry]

When being in a band or a project comes an obligation you no longer enjoy, then it is time to move on. Unrealistic expectations and views of one's skillset that are not rooted in reality are fairly common among bandleaders and aspiring bandleaders. I have been lucky enough to have the ability to spot these traits fairly early on and to realize that playing with a specific group of people is never an obligation I cannot walk away from (playing booked gigs I agreed to play is an exception). Move on. Do it as graciously as possible, but do it.

 

[LowTorque]

There are people who are great to hang out with and people who are great to work with. Rarely is that the same person.

If you want to keep hanging out with Rick, you need to leave the band. But from what I get from the text he is more of a passive-agressive type of person. Do you want those type of people in your live more than you absolutely have to?

 

[ardgedee]

The Music, The Money and The Hang, you've got to have at least two of those three to have a reason to be in a band. It sounds like you're 0 for 3: You don't like the music, you're making no money and the workplace is getting toxic.

It doesn't matter whether his music is good or not and it doesn't matter whether your goals for the band are right or wrong. You're both trying to do different things. Your friendship is going to hold up better if you each pursue your own projects than in fighting over how to continue working together.