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Is My Bandmate Being Unreasonable?

#27
Dark Star Wars said:
I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW
Click to expand...

He wants/intends to be bandleader and it already sounds tense. If you want to be in his band stay. If that's not going to be fun long term I'd bow out but offer to stick around while he looks for a replacement. And his aspirations likely exceed any reality. Good luck.
 
#28
JonathanPDX said:
You can't help someone who does not want to be helped. If he was actually open to suggestions and looking for advice and input, AND if you had enough of a relationship or history for him to be worth that investment of time and energy, then maybe you could try and explain why things aren't working.

It sounds like he's not that guy and this is not that situation. Any more energy you expend will be lost to the void with no return. You know it's not working, you are not enjoying it, and you aren't getting paid. If there's no future then the best course of action is to walk away.

Having a musical outlet that sucks isn't necessarily better than having no outlet at all. It may also devour energy that you could be spending finding or creating a better situation for yourself.
Click to expand...
There is no victory here. Move on. As a friends, you need to let him pursue his “vision”. That doesn’t mean you need to be apart of it.
 
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#29
Your text was one viewpoint, and about unsolvable issues involving his lack of self awareness and narcissistic projections. His text to you shows you are in an abusive relationship with all the aspects of that other than physical violence. His tone to you is consistently demeaning, you are 2nd class. You are even getting "gaslighted" (in a sense) when he says that you are allowed to sing for people you personally bring to the gig. I wouldn't consider this a matter of choice.
(I had to do this regretfully with an old bandmate I'd started playing with again, his combination of diagnosed bipolar disorder and diabetes type 2 proved potentially dangerous- he couldn't regulate his temper)
 
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#31
Acoustic356 said:
I was talking with Victor Wooten the other day. He said something interesting: "As a bassist, my job is to make the other musicians sound better."

You aren't being "paid" to like the music, you're being paid to make the band sound better. If you can elevate the song, then you're a really good bassist!
Click to expand...
Yes, if you are being paid and agreed to the terms. If you're not getting paid and you didn't sign up for abuse then there's no reason at all to stick around and be miserable!

It always comes back to the classic gig trinity: music, hang, and money. This gig doesn't have a balance at all, and it would take a hell of a lot of money to moderate the abusive hang and lousy music.
 
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#32
Dark Star Wars said:
I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW
Click to expand...
A little late to the conversation but really this seems like kind of a big deal from what could be fixed with a simple solution: The two of you should not be in the same band. You want different things from the music; you want different things from the band; you want to play different songs.

If he has a musical vision and wants to achieve it, that's perfectly reasonable for him to want to achieve. If you have a different vision for your music, if your two visions are not compatible, just be in different bands. And quitting his band doesn't have to be a bigger deal than saying, "I hope you can achieve your musical vision. Unfortunately i have a completely different vision for myself and what i want to be doing musically. It doesn't make sense for such drastically opposing visions to be in the same band."
 
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#35
JonathanPDX said:
Yes, if you are being paid and agreed to the terms. If you're not getting paid and you didn't sign up for abuse then there's no reason at all to stick around and be miserable!

It always comes back to the classic gig trinity: music, hang, and money. This gig doesn't have a balance at all, and it would take a hell of a lot of money to moderate the abusive hang and lousy music.
Click to expand...

I didn't see anything "'abusive".
Not all the music is going to be bad, just the originals :)
The hang "seemed" good until the disagreement on the music, which is a small thing.
So, yeah, take it as an opportunity to stretch until the next good thing comes along. That part will always be a part of the industry.
 
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#36
doesn't sound like you're in a band. Sounds like you're a hired sideman, who isn't getting paid. As he said - this isn't a cover band, it's his originals project.

That's not to say he's wrong... (The quality of his originals is a side issue) just that his idea of reality and yours are different. You singed up for a cover band. He recruited to his originals project.

Posted many times here - 90% of threads in this forum are when two band members have a different understanding of what they signed up for.

Tell him you want to be in a covers band - that's what you signed up for. Then either agree to be in the same project, or agree to be in different projects.
 
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#38
Reading your post, I first got the impression that you were located where the musical options were limited, but I looked at your profile, and jeez, you’re in Austin…! I know that presents a different set of supply/demand problems, and apparently you’re in the jamband milieu, which ain’t my jam, so I can’t make any calls on that situation, but my gut would tell me to move on. While not as negative, this guy is similar to an energy vampire with his aspirations.
 
#40
His response is a little too gas lighty for my taste.
He seems to be trying to manipulate you into doing what he wants
If I trusted the vision , like Prince or Bowie level results, I might tolerate that kind of attitude
But you clearly do not trust his vision

Dark Star Wars said:
I don't have the heart to tell him this
Click to expand...

You stated this twice in the OP.
What you need is not heart but the courage to be honest.
You (maybe) fear speaking the truth because you fear you have something to lose.
Maybe you fear loosing his friendship
Maybe you fear loosing a musical outlet
Maybe you fear being the jerk who broke up the band
And rumors about your unreliability

all the bad things could happen
so steel yourself for the worst ( have a plan )
and tell him the truth ( tactfully, kindly )
A stable friendship can withstand such things

Ya'll sound young to me. I'm old, secure, and have less Fs to give, so I'd tell him his vision isn't all that and let the chips fall.
( or, if I felt his vison was "half" of all that, I'd offer to help improve the material )

I'll also just point out that a bass player who does covers and can sing (especially back up ) is an easy hire for any paying band.
 
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