Is My Bandmate Being Unreasonable?

[Dark Star Wars]

Yes, if you are being paid and agreed to the terms. If you're not getting paid and you didn't sign up for abuse then there's no reason at all to stick around and be miserable!

It always comes back to the classic gig trinity: music, hang, and money. This gig doesn't have a balance at all, and it would take a hell of a lot of money to moderate the abusive hang and lousy music.

there is no money - our first "show" there was a $5 cover (I saw none of that, I suspect it went to the bar owner - ie pay to play - and there was about 118 bucks in tips - which was split 5 ways - oddly there are 4 band members, so my friend either paid him self twice (because he played his songs solo for 40 mins, or again split with bar owner as payola). I will ask him about this tonight ....

 

[Dark Star Wars]

I didn't see anything "'abusive".
Not all the music is going to be bad, just the originals
The hang "seemed" good until the disagreement on the music, which is a small thing.
So, yeah, take it as an opportunity to stretch until the next good thing comes along. That part will always be a part of the industry.

Yeah I wouldn't exactly say "abusive" however in reality I have a poopie ton of band experience/stage time/great experiences in bands - and he is VERY VERY green... so his hubris in 'directing' and leading with his half-baked ideas is kind of insane to me... all compounded because I like him as a friend and I think he is generally a good dude, its just he is extremely CONFIDENT about poopie he knows NOTHING about... and that he went off on me like that for simply asking "It should be fun for everyone, wouldn't you agree?" is very concerning... oh well its all for fun - this was never about anything other than PLAYING music and having fun - I frankly didn't think this would ever leave the basement...

 

[Pep]

Victor Wooten is the Plato of music - I LOVE his views. And yes every time I pick up my bass my goal is to support the music and make it better! This project doesn't pay, and I dont see it paying more than 25 bucks (from tips) anytime ever.

That’s true to a certain point but not in this case. Victor knows what he’s getting into prior to committing to anything and I can assure you he wouldn’t stay with something that he didn’t enjoy.

 

[Dark Star Wars]

Overly long wank solos and playing phish and dead tunes, and originals written by people inspired by them, kind of go hand in hand.

I LOVE Phish and I love playing it - the key is 'know thyself' ie if you can jam top-tier for 3 mins, don't take 5 mins...but yes jams only work with high level musicianship, intense listening, interplay, confidence and humility... as a band we are rich in confidence! [groan[. There is a universe of difference between good jams and wankery... I'm afraid this project is confined to the latter

 

[Dark Star Wars]

Reading your post, I first got the impression that you were located where the musical options were limited, but I looked at your profile, and jeez, you’re in Austin…! I know that presents a different set of supply/demand problems, and apparently you’re in the jamband milieu, which ain’t my jam, so I can’t make any calls on that situation, but my gut would tell me to move on. While not as negative, this guy is similar to an energy vampire with his aspirations.

poopie, I moved back to MPLS, I gotta update that... yes in Austin there were LOTS of players - MPLS has a bunch too but seemingly harder to find...

 

[Dark Star Wars]

This isnt reddit, we dont really do "am I the *******" posts here.

But, to be blunt, you probably are. If you dont want to play his songs, dont be in his band, it's pretty simple.

Also, learn to communicate openly with your "friends" about what you want. If they cant take constructive criticism, in a business thats LITERALLY based on popular opinion, then they're in the wrong business.

And for gods sake, don't go behind peoples back and post their private messages online. How would you feel if someone did that to you and presented just their side of the story?

I agree somewhat with your point - but
1)it's anonymous, y'all dont know him, and he will never see this.
2)I gave you the entire story.
3) I would never send texts like that to another person - ever.
4) I wanted others' opinions about the situation - again I would never try to sting-arm someone (let alone bandmates) nor would I send such aggressive texts to anyone (let alone bandmates)

Oh well

Oh and we originally got together to play COVERS - he's just been trying over the years to get his originals in, and I've constantly said "no thanks!"

 

[humbuckaroo]

Maybe it's time for a proper sit-down and some boundaries... if you still want to play with the guy, that is.

 

[mr80htz]

Playing with other people as a group will always get weird at some point. It's a relationship. If communication about musical desires cant be a safe conversation for whatever reason, someone will always get hurt and the the good times fade. It really depends on the culture of the group. Having a band leader, for example, really gets rid of most of this issue. Can you do what i need? If not, its best to part ways. The hyper majority of bands dont last. They are a time and place. Once people get unhappy due to personality issues, it's usually a group in a nose dive from there. After reading the texts, its clear the other dude is taking this group a bit seriously and isn't living in reality. How many times have I heard about the promise of bigger gigs from someone who isn't able to understand how to get there?!. I'd say everything you want to say to this guy knowing this group isn't going to work out for the long term but do it just because you might as well. Maybe it will all work-out for you both. I've learned difficult people are only worth my time if our time is filled with awesome gigs. You guys dont have that. 9 min. Dear Prudence? If its jazz, Ok then, but a rock/acoustic band? Im walking out

 

[dune]

Yeah I wouldn't exactly say "abusive"

I would. Condescension and gaslighting can both be considered emotional abuse. From what I read in that text exchange, he's clearly trying to make you feel "less than" and doubt yourself. Now, maybe he's just a jerk, but condescension, gaslighting and the personal grandiosity he displays can all be hallmarks of pathological narcissism.

 

[JohnnyBottom]

A 9 min version of Dear Prudence?? Oy vey Maria. Run.

Sounds like its his band. He is the band leader. You in or out ?
oy is right....Who does he think he is..

 

[sunbeast]

If you aren't totally feeling it, move on now! I've stuck around in projects I wasn't 100% behind for various reasons over the years and have always regretted it later- you have limited time in your life, invest it where it serves you best, experiment with others, etc.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW

If i got those texts, i'd probably pull the plug immediately. I don't see how i could continue with this person for many reasons.

 

[aero58]

.

I gotta admit, I was diggin’ that!

 

[Acoustic356]

Yeah I wouldn't exactly say "abusive" however in reality I have a poopie ton of band experience/stage time/great experiences in bands - and he is VERY VERY green... so his hubris in 'directing' and leading with his half-baked ideas is kind of insane to me... all compounded because I like him as a friend and I think he is generally a good dude, its just he is extremely CONFIDENT about poopie he knows NOTHING about... and that he went off on me like that for simply asking "It should be fun for everyone, wouldn't you agree?" is very concerning... oh well its all for fun - this was never about anything other than PLAYING music and having fun - I frankly didn't think this would ever leave the basement...

I have learned a lot from projects that never left the recording studio. There was a reason why I was there when it started, and I was willing to stay until it became untenable.

I was in a project with a pitchy singer, a guitarists who had a harsh and shrill tone, and a drummer that depended on me to keep time.

My lyric writing improved while I was there as well as my arranging, because they were willing to experiment, and try things. It's not wholesale bad as long as you enter the situation with a positive attitude.

I was in another band where I helped them re-arrange an entire album as a 3 piece because people left. Our performances were stronger, and we would sit through entire rehearsal while they thought they could pull off a piece with 3 layered synths, 2 guitarists, and a bassist with just a guitar and a bassist.

It all helps you grow as a musician, as long as you let it.

In both instances, I left, but it wasn't because of the band. In one instance they band with the pitchy singer moved, and with the other, I changed jobs and my schedule no longer aligned.

I would have eventually left both projects, but not until they were better for me being there.

NOW... I am not saying that I'm the best out there, but I do have a vision of what works with an audience, and I believe in taping rehearsals and getting feedback from musicians that we trust.

This has always worked well with me in the past.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

You're putting in the effort to help him see his goal. If you're doing all this for free, tell him you want song writing co-credits. If he balks, he doesn't value your contribution.

 

[bassicmike]

1)it's anonymous, y'all dont know him, and he will never see this.

One should never make the assumption that something posted on an Internet forum won't be seen.

 

[ELG60]

Yeah I wouldn't exactly say "abusive" however in reality I have a poopie ton of band experience/stage time/great experiences in bands - and he is VERY VERY green... so his hubris in 'directing' and leading with his half-baked ideas is kind of insane to me... all compounded because I like him as a friend and I think he is generally a good dude, its just he is extremely CONFIDENT about poopie he knows NOTHING about... and that he went off on me like that for simply asking "It should be fun for everyone, wouldn't you agree?" is very concerning... oh well its all for fun - this was never about anything other than PLAYING music and having fun - I frankly didn't think this would ever leave the basement...

The Dunning-Kruger Effect in action.

 

[Topkat13]

There seems to be more and more of these type of posts on here. I’ll read a few sentences and then I think to really be objective I would need to hear the other parties side. He may think you are unreasonable.

 

[Pep]

I met my friend Rick, from a Craigs list ad placed by a 3rd random guy. We had lots of jams a few gigs (backyard and no-pay bar gigs. A few years pass and I rejoin with Rick, who has this grand vision of being a songwriter/lead acoustic player (with lots of fx)


Over the course of time we had the conversation MANY MANY MANY times about how "I dont want to play originals." I don't have the heart to tell him that The ONLY reason being; I really don't like his songs, they go on too long, way too many lyrics, overall cheeseball vibe... IMHO

We had been playing only covers for the last 8 months or so. We did a non-paying gig (with a $5 cover?!) the other day; I think there were about 12 people there, including a bunch of random walk ins He played 4 originals as a solo acoustic set (with looper and lots of fx pedals) The band did 7 covers and one of his originals. There are WAY too much wank-solos on every soug (we did a 9 min version of Dear Prudence) - most songs were about 9 mins... (his original was 9 mins).

Now he's saying he wants to do 5 originals with the band per show...

I love playing music with people - and this is currently my only musical outlet.
This morning he sent a text which set off this whole chain reaction of, IMHO, ego mania ********... It's long (sorry) but I'd love some feedback - I run my bands 100 percent the opposite of him - make sure everyone is having fun..... Despite Rick's passion, I can say with 1000% certainty, there is ZERO chance this band is going anywhere - I don't have the heart to tell him this .

Here is the text chain reaction. I like the guy, and I like hanging out with him, but he kinda sucks (for me) as a bandmate [Supreme Leader?]
Am I being attacked for challenging any part of his "vision?" Does he seem like a "ball hog?" Or am I just being too sensitive?

____________ The texts start off saying "I'm working on a setlist, do you want to do Brown Eyed Women or [someother song] I jsut said "I really wanna sing a bunch of songs!" [I have sang in a choir for 15 years and fronted bands ..whjatever I can DEF sing just fine...] This set off a barrage from the guy

LONG TEXTS BELOW

One other thing. A true friend would never send another friend texts like that. Also he may be able read your dislike if doing the originals by the way you play them and your body language.

 

[gln1955]

There seems to be more and more of these type of posts on here. I’ll read a few sentences and then I think to really be objective I would need to hear the other parties side. He may think you are unreasonable.

I'm sure he does. He can't figure out why anyone wouldn't want to miss work to play his tedious originals for no pay.