• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Is my lead singer that bad?

#21
If you're trying to get somewhere with your band, your singer really needs to shine. Most non-musicians will judge your entire band based on the vocals. The hard truth,imo, is you shouldn't have made a C.D. with this singer. You're giving your seal of approval on someone who simply doesn't deserve it and it compromises your integrity(if your trying to be a pro band). I'm giving my opinion because one of my "flaws" over the years(repeatedly) was hoping,wishing,wanting to see what I thought was potential in singers and it didn't ever bare fruit. If you're in your early teens and just starting out , that's fine. That's not the case here. In my experiences, my first impression was always correct. I , like you, would try and see some sort of glimmer of hope and buy into all the excuses as to why they weren't that good and I'd hope that with time they'd get to where they needed to be. Huge mistake on my part and I did it repeatedly. You have to take musicians/singers at face value. If they have it, fine. If not , you have to keep in mind that you'll most likely waste months or years only to realise that your first impressions where correct. Wanna guess how that feels ? If you can play in tune, shouldn't you play in a band with a singer that can ? After about a half dozen times and decades later, you'll wish you had that ability to see through the b.s. Trust me on that. All the excuses as to why he hasn't become a good singer really shouldn't matter to you. The fact is he hasn't and your time is extremely valuable (or it flippin' should be !). All musical decisions should take priority. I hope this helps and keep in mind that there is always time to correct a personel change even if it takes months. Be strong, bro.
 
#23
Session1969 said:
If you're trying to get somewhere with your band, your singer really needs to shine. Most non-musicians will judge your entire band based on the vocals. The hard truth,imo, is you shouldn't have made a C.D. with this singer. You're giving your seal of approval on someone who simply doesn't deserve it and it compromises your integrity(if your trying to be a pro band). I'm giving my opinion because one of my "flaws" over the years(repeatedly) was hoping,wishing,wanting to see what I thought was potential in singers and it didn't ever bare fruit. If you're in your early teens and just starting out , that's fine. That's not the case here. In my experiences, my first impression was always correct. I , like you, would try and see some sort of glimmer of hope and buy into all the excuses as to why they weren't that good and I'd hope that with time they'd get to where they needed to be. Huge mistake on my part. You have to take musicians/singers at face value. If they have it, fine. If not , you have to keep in mind that you'll most likely waste months or years only to realise that your first impressions where correct. Wanna guess how that feels ? After about a half dozen times and decades later, you'll wish you had that ability to see through the b.s. Trust me on that. All the excuses as to why he hasn't become a good singer really shouldn't matter to you. The fact is he hasn't and your time is extremely valuable (or it flippin' should be !). All musical decisions should take priority. I hope this helps and keep in mind that there is always time to correct a personel change even if it takes months. Be strong, bro.
Click to expand...
Wow man thanks for the advice!!
 
#24
Sorry man, I noticed a couple of issues.

1. Timing. He is off the beat live, not in a artsy cool way.
2. Pitch. He is missing a good many notes.

If he is good in the studio but is having problems live you have to ask a couple questions.

1. Does he have good monitor support? In ear or otherwise.
2. Does he warmup at all before a show?
3. Does he drink before a show (or possibly other drugs)? I have known many singers that have similar issues even after 2 beers.
 
#25
Session1969 said:
If you're trying to get somewhere with your band, your singer really needs to shine. Most non-musicians will judge your entire band based on the vocals. The hard truth,imo, is you shouldn't have made a C.D. with this singer. You're giving your seal of approval on someone who simply doesn't deserve it and it compromises your integrity(if your trying to be a pro band). I'm giving my opinion because one of my "flaws" over the years(repeatedly) was hoping,wishing,wanting to see what I thought was potential in singers and it didn't ever bare fruit. If you're in your early teens and just starting out , that's fine. That's not the case here. In my experiences, my first impression was always correct. I , like you, would try and see some sort of glimmer of hope and buy into all the excuses as to why they weren't that good and I'd hope that with time they'd get to where they needed to be. Huge mistake on my part and I did it repeatedly. You have to take musicians/singers at face value. If they have it, fine. If not , you have to keep in mind that you'll most likely waste months or years only to realise that your first impressions where correct. Wanna guess how that feels ? If you can play in tune, shouldn't you play in a band with a singer that can ? After about a half dozen times and decades later, you'll wish you had that ability to see through the b.s. Trust me on that. All the excuses as to why he hasn't become a good singer really shouldn't matter to you. The fact is he hasn't and your time is extremely valuable (or it flippin' should be !). All musical decisions should take priority. I hope this helps and keep in mind that there is always time to correct a personel change even if it takes months. Be strong, bro.
Click to expand...

This is great advice. Stuff I wish I'd learned years ago. I would only add that playing with subpar musicians is fine if you're just doing it to have fun with eachother. If you want to do something more professional you have to (eek!!!!) treat it like a business. Managers may hire on future potentional but they expect major improvements and will fire you if your don't perform up to expectations.
 
#26
If he could sing at one time, and for some reason now he can't, see if you might be able to make some adjustments to make it a little easier.

- Get him good monitors
- Try playing the songs in a different key that's more in his range and wheelhouse.
- You can detune the guitars to Eb, or use a reference pitch lower than A440 like A439. It might give him a little more headroom in his range.
- See if you can change the phrasing around so that it has less opportunities to go pitchy. Less long legato lines, and more shorter phrases and stacatto.

My vocal ability is limited (as is everyone's in one way or another), so the last thing I want to do is showcase my deficiencies. Show his strengths, and if you find that you can't find them or they don't fit the band, then you know what you have to do.
 
#27
Manuel101 said:
He doesn't have drug issues they are prescribe and he needs them or he is in constant pain. in the video you cant see how bad the scar is i should upload a picture. Doctors have tried everything to get rid of the pain but have been unsuccessful.
Click to expand...

Sounds very much like a drug problem to me. Painkillers are way overprescribed these days, and lots of people have really bad prescription drug addictions.

I just completed and online course that was required for my job. There was a secton on pity vs. compassion. Seems to fit in this situation. To say you have a lot of problems, we feel bad, so we'll keep you even though we think you suck is pity. Compassion is letting the guy know you understand he's have a rough time, yet support him knowing he can overcome all that's on his plate right now.

If it were me I'd be up front with him, and tell him what you guys are thinking. Figure out what exactly what it is that you (or others) don't like about his singing and give him the opportunity to get better. If there are other issues, do the same. I'd give the guy a chance, and see where it goes. Not being up front with someone and blindsiding them is the stuff that really sucks. When people communicate the outcomes are always a lot more managable. Yeah, things can still hurt, but it's a very different kind of hurt. And a hurt that people usually grow and learn from.
 
#29
Before telling him to get lessons. You should really watch the video together and ask him what he thinks. If he sees nothing wrong then I doubt he'll get better.

This is based on the fact that I've never had a bad singer get better. Thems the breaks kid.
 
#34
I´ve listened to the Youtube vid and think the singing is not as bad as Anthony Kiedis in the early RHCP days. :hiding: - just joking -
But seriously if he reduces the vibrato and concentrates more on the pitch it can get better.
Don´t cut him off too fast, that can be done too easily!
Talk to him in a respectful way and see if he´s willing to work on his singing style or to take lessons.
There´s nothing wrong with good criticism... as a part of your band he was willing to work with you and deserves at least a chance.
 
#35
The vibrato may be a touchy issue. I agree he uses it way to much but that is more of a personal thing for people. Sounds like the biggest issue it the pills. Our singer was drinking a bit to much before we would play and was singing flat as a result. We addressed it, she listened and has gotten it under control. It wasn't even that bad really but we noticed it.
I would record some stuff when he is sober and then sit down with him one on one and watch/listen and just gently talk about it honestly.
 
#38
Sorry, I know it is bad etiquette to not read all the posts before posting yours, but that singer was awful, just terrible, not only was he the weakest link, he actually dragged everybody else to a lower level.

The joys of autotune, he sounds fine on record, but who doesn't.
 
#39
Manuel101 said:
Is my lead singer that bad?
Click to expand...

Just to answer your question, yes, he's that bad.

Sorry to be so blunt but.... I could only stand a few measures of his singing, although your music sounded nice. I also tried listening to the other link someone else posted, it was also bad. My wife in the next room, after I clicked off, said "That was horrible." :( Sorry. I'm an internet stranger so I don't feel obligated to consider all his personal problems. You wanted unbiased anonymous input. Point blank, his singing is bad.

What should you do? I don't know. You seem to be making a lot of excuses for his singing that aren't very objective on your part. I think at this point in time you're not ready to see that he should probably be replaced, and you would feel guilty if you get rid of him, even if that would be best for everyone him included.

Lots of good advice in this thread. I would say read through it a few more times and take the best, most applicable nuggets, try some of the suggestions and see if you can work it out. Good luck.
 
#40
So they guy is your friend. And he has some issues. The band wants to go places. Do you have a manager? Do you have a "coach?" Is there a neutral third party that you can have critique the band, each and every person, and comment to the band as a whole?

I am not suggesting you need a coach or manager, however, bringing in a respected neutral observer to critique the group in front of the group can be a "sobering" experience for everyone. Not unlike getting a financial audit, only an audit, by someone who knows and the band trusts, where everyone lives by the results. Club owner? Producer? Radio DJ?

Once each person's failures are "on record" the band can agree to an improvement plan with a set deadline. Then the band can decide who passes and who doesn't. It will still be painful, but having an outside objective opinion delivered to the group as a whole will help all of you deal with the unvarnished reality. Good Luck
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back