• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Is Over-Compressing Causing my Tone to Mush Out?

jaywa

jaywa

May 5, 2008
7,702
283
Iowa City, IA
#1
Situation: Cover/originals bands, steady gigs, nice P.A. with multiple Yorkville subs and tops, Crown power amps and a Yamaha digital board. Bass is a 78 Precision with Nordstrand PJ pickups, run direct to board via a SansAmp BDDI.

I have been getting more and more dissatisifed with my tone on gigs. I go wireless so I am able to go out into the house and hear what's happening... and I don't like it. My tone is "warm" and deep enough but it is lacking definition big-time and not finding its place in the mix overall.

One thing I've noticed is that we have the compression on my channel dialed way up. I mean to the point I can practically hear it working. The last two bassists the band had before me were not very accomplished so I'm wondering if the BL maxed out the bass compression because of that. If we backed that off somewhat do you think my sound would tighten up?
 
#2
It couldn't hurt. I dislike hearing any signs of pumping in compression on the bass.

Also the BDDI is notorious for built-in mid scoop, maybe dial in more direct with the blend? Also you can roll down the "high" and "low" knobs and boost the level to get a net mids boost, although how this sounds in practice can vary depending on the bass, strings, etc.
 
#3
Yeah, re the SansAmp... I feel like I've taken that about as far as I can go. Settings last gig were:

Level - 3:00 (just a slight volume boost over straight thru signal)
Blend - 1:00
Bass - 9:30
Treble - 10:00
Presence - 9:30
Drive - Noon

And still felt like I was actually more present in the mix with the BDDI off than with it on. Considering a Tone Hammer very strongly for that reason.

Also thinking I may want to go into my channel on the board and play with the EQ a bit?
 
#6
"Definition" can mean a lot of things. IMHO, the only part of "definition" affected by compression is the attack of the tone. If your tone is missing the attack you want, then yes, that could be caused by over-compressing. Could be that your BL doesn't want to hear a lot of attack. Talk it out with 'em.
 
#7
Too much compression will cause a lack of definition in your bass sound. If you can hear it working, then it is probably set incorrectly. There is no "universal" setting for bass players. It would be worth a conversation with the BL. What worked for the previous bass players has nothing to do with you.
 
#8
Compression may be causing an issue, but I'd lean more towards the BDDI being the problem. I'm a compression fan for the record. Try blending more of the SansAmp out, and yes, definitely work with the EQ. Lack of definition sounds like low-mids/middle-mids may need boosting: 100Hz - 500Hz range perhaps?
 
#9
From the SABDDI manual:
When you push SansAmp Bass Driver DI to saturation, you get enhanced
harmonics, just as you would with an overdriven tube amplifier. Depending on
the setting, the unique circuitry limits transient peaks for an even meter reading, so that outboard compressors or limiters may not be necessary.

You need to take this into account. If you're adding compression you may be 'double compressing' the signal.
 
#13
ThudThudThud said:
From the SABDDI manual:
When you push SansAmp Bass Driver DI to saturation, you get enhanced
harmonics, just as you would with an overdriven tube amplifier. Depending on
the setting, the unique circuitry limits transient peaks for an even meter reading, so that outboard compressors or limiters may not be necessary.

You need to take this into account. If you're adding compression you may be 'double compressing' the signal.
Click to expand...

This is true. There is some compression-by-design when you push the BDDI, RBI, RPM, etc.

Riis
 
#16
Compression is a byproduct of distortion. With a vintage tube amp or with the SansAmp circuit, this will be more of a limiting effect. Compression is one of the hardest effects to use properly and I have no idea how good the compressor is in that board. My suggestion would be to turn off the compression at the board before making final judgement.

How are you monitoring the bass on stage. Through a bass amp or a wedge? I'm always a little confused when people say they don't like their tone on a gig. What tone? The one you hear when you play, the tone your band mates hear or the sound in FOH. Unless you go out in the room with a wireless while the band is playing you don't really know what it sounds like out there.
 
#17
I also use a sansamp and fender PJ.
The sansamp does compress the signal, and I dislike most board compressors. The settings you stated are very close to how I set mine. The one thing you have not said yet is how you set you pick up blend when the bass driver is on.
I almost always slightly favor the jazz pick up when I use mine. I feel I get more definition in the attack this way.
So I guess my question is, do you adjust your pick up blend, or do you set it and never change it?
 
#18
If you are monitoring with the wedges on stage, I find that most sound guys compress the crap out of the bass in the monitor mix because they're scared of having bass blow them. I have pretty good dynamics and play with a light touch so it always throws my playing off, and I have to request less compression or just not go through the wedges at all. It's a constant battle. Sound guys who I/we have worked with a lot in the past know my playing and it's always a treat to have things sound the way I expect.
 
#19
schecter5string said:
I also use a sansamp and fender PJ.
The sansamp does compress the signal, and I dislike most board compressors. The settings you stated are very close to how I set mine. The one thing you have not said yet is how you set you pick up blend when the bass driver is on.
I almost always slightly favor the jazz pick up when I use mine. I feel I get more definition in the attack this way.
So I guess my question is, do you adjust your pick up blend, or do you set it and never change it?
Click to expand...

I have my neck PU wide open almost always and vary the bridge pickup depending on the song but never more than about 20% up. And I usually have the tone wide open though I will back it down somewhat for mellower tunes.
 
#20
I run a similar setup and the key for me was to use an FDeck HPF on my bass signal. It really tightened up my bass tone as it went through the FOH subs. I also use a low ratio compression setting (2:1) with a long attack time. Even with minimal compression, the FOH subs just killed all the definition out of my tone. The Fdeck HPF was a life saver in that regard... it can also flip the polarity so your stage rig and the FOH subs work in tandem and done fight each other should your cab and sub placement cause an out of phase condition. My in house and stage tone went up 10 fold when I got the Fdeck HPF.

Initially, I thought is was a compression thing causing me trouble... it wasn't.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back