Is Sheryl Crow really a bassist?

[tfer]

I'm a little bit confused and here is why.

About 30 plus years ago, I started using that term, "A Musician who plays the bass".
(It's possible, I channeled your ideas from the future .)

Let's say, I used that Term to describe Sting - a Musician who plays the bass and Sings.

You said,



It would mean (to me ) the following:
Sheryl is a TRUE bassist but THAT'S IT.

Here is how I would use that same term about Sheryl.
Sheryl is a Musician who happens to play (SOMETIMES) the bass (EASY BASS-LINES), but
she is weak as a bass player, or
Sheryl is MUCH, MUCH better as a Composer, Singer, a Country-style rhythm guitar player than a BASSIST.

Bass can be played, even fairly well, without being a musician. The ability to play a simple line isn't difficult to achieve.

But people like Wooten, Jaco, etc can play anything, and never lose the groove, no matter how simple or complex they play.

I guess the only way I can describe it, is a bassist doesn't hurt the song, but a musician adds that 'something' to it that a bassist doesn't have the ability to do yet.

It's an ethereal argument, much like the old one used when trying to define porn: "I know it, when I see it".

 

[Whousedtoplay]

a (1) bassist doesn't hurt the song, but a (2) musician adds that 'something' to it that a bassist doesn't have the ability to do yet.

I'd like to extrapolate your thought.
Yes, Sheryl is a Musician UNLESS SHE PLAYS THE BASS, because she
(1) HURTS THE SONG ("the groove clearly disappeared")
and
(2) Sheryl by playing the bass DOES NOT ADD "SOMETHING" TO HER SONG.

 

[tfer]

I'd like to extrapolate your thought.
Yes, Sheryl is a Musician UNLESS SHE PLAYS THE BASS, because she
(1) HURTS THE SONG ("the groove clearly disappeared")
and
(2) Sheryl by playing the bass DOES NOT ADD "SOMETHING" TO HER SONG.

Not really.

I think she's a singer/songwriter (a very good one) who happens to play bass.

Imagine you and I sitting around a campfire. We've both got acoustic guitars and are strumming away on open chords. We are competent, and playing with good time and feel. At that point we are guitarists.

Now, from the next campsite over, Steve Vai strolls over and asks to sit in. Now, we weren't playing anything wrong, and we were even playing different voicings of the same chords. But, when he starts playing, the harmonic and rhythmic complexity skyrockets, because of his deeper understanding of both, compared to our abilities.

He brought a musicianship to our gathering that we simply weren't able to provide.

 

[nutdog]

people like Wooten, Jaco, etc can play anything, and never lose the groove, no matter how simple or complex they play.

She's a bassist. Those guys are masterbassists.

I think of myself as a bass owner.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

But, when he starts playing, the harmonic and rhythmic complexity skyrockets, because of his deeper understanding of both, compared to our abilities.

And here is why.
Just recently, I transcribed the bass-line (a super simple one) from Banana Pancakes by Jack Johnson.
I would call that bass-line, "Be careful - don't damage the song's Mood, Character, Texture, etc..!"
Now, I've just imagine if we are playing that very transparent and "super-light" song and Steve Vai starts adding all his KNOWLEDGE of all those "complexities" with HIS Exceptional technique abilities...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I think of myself as a bass owner.

Explore your world and BROADEN YOUR HORIZONS.

 

[tfer]

And here is why.
Just recently, I transcribed the bass-line (a super simple one) from Banana Pancakes by Jack Johnson.
I would call that bass-line, "Be careful - don't damage the song's Mood, Character, Texture, etc..!"
Now, I've just imagine if we are playing that very transparent and "super-light" song and Steve Vai starts adding all his KNOWLEDGE of all those "complexities" with HIS Exceptional technique abilities...

But, you are implying that he would just shred mindlessly. I'm saying that his abilities would add to our playing without over playing.

His advantage is that he could play ANYTHING that he wanted or that he could imagine.

If we wanted tasteless shredding, we'd call Yngwie!

 

[tfer]

She's a bassist. Those guys are masterbassists.

I think of myself as a bass owner.

I'd say that a master-bassist is a musician!

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Maybe I phrased the question with too much room to make comments people don't really mean in an incidious way. I have no doubt Sheryl Crow could be a virtuoso bassist, an astronaut, scientist, etc. She's a gifted artist for sure. I was just wondering if she did the bass work on some of her hits, and it sounds like maybe they let a "specialist" studio bassist do it, freeing up her time to continue to show everybody the money with her songwriting and singing abilities...and that's smart.

Pretty sure when she was working with David B. of David and David, she contributed by playing the bass.
Her songs, if not her bass most likely her lines copied by another.

Doesn't seem like a stretch to me.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

his abilities would add to our playing without over playing.

That's a sign of true musicianship.

Here is one of my favorite Pop Musicians - the MINIMALIST(!), Citizen Cope.
Let's take his one song - Sideways.

Which version do you prefer?
How much Santana adds to that MINIMALISTIC song?
Is Santana overplaying?


(1) Here is JUST Citizen Cope:


(2) Here is Citizen Cope with our BASS PLAYER, Sheryl Crow:


(3) Here is Citizen Cope with the GREAT SANTANA:

 

[tfer]

I prefer Sheryl Crow's version, but I don't think that Carlos is overplaying. I just prefer the emptiness of her take. It seems to better match the lyrical content. It strikes a far more emotional chord with me.

But, Santana's version is cool too. He has taken an song about loneliness, and played it in a BB King style 'call and response' blues.

The difference between being an instrumentalist (whether guitar, bass, piano, violin, etc) isn't the ability to keep it simple, or make it complex. It's being able to do whatever the song requires, and recognizing it in the style you are attempting.

 

[tfer]

BTW, I'm enjoying the debate.

Discussing subjects that are hard to define, makes a person evaluate their thoughts.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

She's a bassist.

Here is what one of her bass players, Tim Smith said about her:

"I was always kind of like the utility guy 'cause I think she's a great bass player(!) She's basically a pianist or keyboard player but she plays bass lines like you would play with your left hand on piano and the way they would move and stuff."
"If you can get straight songs and players that are struggling a bit, there's something charming about that. She would kind of take on bass parts that were that way. She knew what she wanted to say musically in her head but she wasn't technically a great bass player(!) But there was something about that struggle and the tone she could get that made it not so muso-y and I think that's always cool. So that's why I never really wanted to learn the ins and outs of everything about a guitar to be a virtuoso. I like having a little bit of a struggle and trying things in a way that makes me have to approach something that's not as easy all the time..."
From here:
Tim Smith: 'Noel Gallagher's Songs Are Great And He's A Great Songwriter' | Music News @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

Here is what Robert Kearns said about Sheryl:
"But Sheryl can play so many instruments and she's got an incredible ear. She knows exactly what everyone is playing. She hears it. But at the same time, she's never putting any restrictions on us."

Robert Kearns: The Epiphone Interview

Here is more about Sheryl Crow from Tim Smith:
CNN - Sheryl Crow bassist doing what makes him happy - January 18, 1999

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I prefer Sheryl Crow's version,

I just prefer the emptiness of her take. It seems to better match the lyrical content. It strikes a far more emotional chord with me.

It's because Sheryl is a MUSICIAN, and Sheryl ADDS to the song!

It's being able to do whatever the song requires, and recognizing it in the style you are attempting.

It sounds that our Superb Musician - Santana - had some instructions like, "I must(!) respond to EACH and EVERY Cope's call, no matter what".

 

[tfer]

It's because Sheryl is a MUSICIAN, and Sheryl ADDS to the song!



It sounds that our Superb Musician - Santana - had some instructions like, "I must(!) respond to EACH and EVERY Cope's call, no matter what".

I think it's because she's a songwriter, and matches the music to the lyrics.

Carlos changed the feel of the music, because that is where (IMO) the emotional context sat for him.

2 completely different interpretations by 2 artists with different priorities.

 

[tfer]

You and I agree on which take is better, but that's coincidence. We wouldn't have to look hard to find someone who prefer's Carlos' version because Sheryl's seems boring.

Chocolate vs strawberry.

 

[tfer]

(Putting on a flame retardant suit...)

As far as Santana goes, I believe that he's a phenomenal guitarist, but in thinking about it, I'm not sure he would qualify under my 'definition' of a musician.

If given an appropriate amount of time to become familiar with a style of music, would a player be able to transition seamlessly into that style, without necessarily drawing attention to themselves.

Use Carole Kaye as an example.

Can she play jazz? Pop? Country? Blues? Rock? The answer to all of these are yes, and she never did anything but play the required lines very well. I've never heard her play metal, but I'm confident because of her track record, that she could study it and find the appropriate lines, using her knowledge and technical abilities. And she never brought the spotlight onto herself.

Growing up, I've heard Vai play jazz, rock, metal and pop. I've seen him cop fingerpicked lines like a country guitarist. In his solo stuff, he's like Carlos, in that he sounds like himself. But I've never heard Carlos show that flexibility.

Mind you, I'm not up on all of his past recordings, whereas I listened to a ton of Vai, so I may be wrong.

But, in retrospect, everything that I've heard Santana play, sounds like Santana playing Santana.

A musician is a chameleon, able to make themselves disappear into the music. The first call studio guys are very adept at this.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Sheryl's seems boring(???).

It's good that my wife does not read that kind of comments.
Sheryl's version is the BEST version for my wife.

Now. I prefer Santana's version!

It's just there are a few moments where Santana's response sounds "too expected", "too predicted", too much of "just play something", but the overall Santana's Mood, Character, sound, tone, is my choice. drool drool

 

[tfer]

It's good that my wife does not read that kind of comments.
Sheryl's version is the BEST version for my wife.

Now. I prefer Santana's version!

It's just there are a few moments where Santana's response sounds "too expected", "too predicted", too much of "just play something", but the overall Santana's Mood, Character, sound, tone, is my choice. drool drool

I liked both, but find that Sheryl's version mirrors the stark lyrical content.

But, I really like Carlos' playing and tone.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The first call studio guys are very adept at this.

P.S. I doubt that Sheryl Crow gets a lot of calls as a bass player, but who knows...