Is there a term for this?

[Exploiter8]

Since this concerns measurements I'm posting in the Luthier's Corner.

I noticed my fretting wrist got sore relatively quickly when playing my Peavey Fury and Zodiac DE Basses. I thought it was because of the skinny necks. I have no problem with my Peavey T-40 or Alembic Spoiler. I've used the same model number strings on each but the Fury and Zodiac seem shorter. Drawing a line perpendicular to a center-line of the neck to the Straplock button, I have different measurements from the nut to the button line. Is there a technical term for this? Is there a similar reference measurement? It might help if I decide to get a bass without trying it first. My strap seems to fall over my shoulder at the same point regardless of which bass I wear. That is why I chose the Straplock point.

Here are some poor pics in case I haven't explained myself properly. I resized each image to 250px × 187px. I don't understand why they posted differently.

SPOILER 18-7/8"

T-40 18-1/8"

FURY 16-7/8"

ZODIAC DE 16-3/8"

There's roughly 2-1/2" difference between the Spoiler and the Zodiac and I can sure feel it!

I guess size does matter!

Thanks for any input,
X8

EDIT: Strange, NOW the pics are the proper size!

 

[lbridenstine]

Measure from the inside of the nut (the side towards the fretboard) to the point where the highest string touches the bridge and see if those measurements are different. That's your scale length.

I can't think of any reason why it would matter where the strap button falls other than balance.

My strap seems to fall over my shoulder at the same point regardless of which bass I wear. That is why I chose the Straplock point.

The strap will fall where the straplock is.

 

[lbridenstine]

But it could just be the skinny neck thing, the shape of the neck, the radius of the fretboard, or maybe the string spacing (amount of space between each string) if that's different.

 

[iamlowsound]

That could affect balance and you could be holding up the neck of some of your basses.

lowsound

 

[miziomix]

Upper horn length and therefore strap pin placement affects the ergonomic of the instrument. Assuming that your basses are all 34" scale, the shorter the upper horn the further away the first fret is from you. That determines how far your left arm has to reach and the angle of your wrist at the first few frets. I am not saying that that is the reason for your problem. But it is one observation worth making. How high you strap the bass on adds to the above.

Funny though, you seem to have problem with the two basses that sport better ergonomic. I would have said the Alembic be the worse of the lot. Is it maybe a 32" scale?

Did you notice where on the fretboard you are more likely to feel pain?

 

[Exploiter8]

Thanks for the replies.

Alembic - 32" Scale
Peaveys - 34" Scale

I spend a lot of time around the 7th fret, which puts a noticeable strain on my wrist with the Fury and Zodiac. The Spoiler and T-40 are comfy and there is no problem playing near the nut on any of them. My hand on the 7th fret of the Zodiac is equivalent to being on the 9th fret of the Spoiler. That little bit makes a big difference, comfort wise.

I'm planning to install flush mount Straplocks in the horns of the Fury and Zodiac. I'll see if that pushes everything to my left, if you catch my drift. There's no neck dive now, hopefully there will be none later.

Thanks again,
X8

 

[miziomix]

Are you very tall?

 

[Exploiter8]

I'm 5-10, but I'm overweight. My arm runs out of room going up the neck compared to a skinny person! Hence the wrist being forced to compensate beyond it's limits.

X8

 

[miziomix]

I see. My guess was that, you must be tall and for some reason find the combination of a short scale with short upper horn more comfortable at the center of the board. That indeed seems the case. It's not common. Actually the opposite is true. But I couldn't think of any logic alternative and your explanation was the missing tile.

In this case it seems that your ideal bass is a 32" inch scale with a short upper horn. If you want a 34" scale then the upper horn should be either as short or shorter. Like the Alembic S Clarke but 34" scale.

I don't think flush mount straplocks will make a big difference though as the frets placement will shift by only a few millimeters. You need to shorten that upper horn by about 1" to feel the difference. Not that I recommend doing that on your existing basses. Besides resale consideration, it will likely cause neck dive.

What you could do - but it still leaves a scar - is to move the strap pin behind the horn, by about 1". It's a trial and error thing so you should first test it. Try with a string (leather offers more grip on lacquer) tied at the end of the strap and to the upper horn. See if you can strap the bass on that way and shift the anchor spot on the horn back and forth. This way you should be able to find the spot where it makes the difference you are looking for.

edit: even in this case, watch out for neck dive.

 

[FerruleCat]

The Gretsch Electromatic short-scales are a good example of this. The newer ones join the neck higher up the fretboard than the originals did. I haven't played either version, but the new ergonomics just don't seem as appealing to me.

 

[Exploiter8]

Good idea of trying strap placement first. If dive isn't a problem (I use soft leather straps with a rough back that don't slip), a flush mount with a shortened screw on the back side may be just the ticket!

Thanks again to all for the input.
X8

 

[miziomix]

Yeah, that should work.

You're very welcome.

Maurizio

 

[Liam Wald]

I'm 5-10, but I'm overweight.
X8

You don't look overweight. Must be the evening dress!

 

[obimark]

Not sure if one of those is a 35" scale bass but that could be it.

never liked them myself, always 34" for me.

 

[Joedog]

I believe the technical term is "the angle of the dangle"

 

[singlemalt]

Dingwall has been adding a recessed strap lock to the back of the bass, as an alternative to the button on the bottom of the bass.

The Dingalls are exceptionally well balanced and on the light side, but the long scale models have a 37" B string so the reach to the nut can feel long.

By moving the end of the strap to the back of the bass, a couple inches from the normal end button, the bass hangs more to you right. This reduces the reach to the nut.

Seems like it might be an easy retrofit to solve your problem.

 

[iamlowsound]

Have you tried adjusting the length of your strap so your bass sits higher?

lowsound

 

[warrplayer]

Don't forget that scale length doesn't necessarily correlate with distance your hand has to reach. Some 34 inch basses are going to require a greater reach simply because their bridges are farther away from the end of the body.

 

[Exploiter8]

My 32" Scale has the longest reach to the nut, but that's not the problem. It's when I play near the 7th and 9th frets on the Fury and Zodiac, my wrist is at more of an angle than with the Spoiler or the T-40.

I've experimented with strap lengths. Unless I use my right arm to hold the bass in place it just swings back to my right. If anything, the bottom Straplock needs to be extended OUT @2" or so.

Fury and Zodiac have SD Quarter Pounders and sound SO GOOD! Unfortunately, now that I took the measurements in my original post, I'm obsessing on the difference which only compounds the problem. Too much info IS a BAD THING!

Thanks for the feedback.
X8

 

[miziomix]

....By moving the end of the strap to the back of the bass, a couple inches from the normal end button, the bass hangs more to you right. This reduces the reach to the nut.....

Are you talking about the upper horn strap pin or the one at the end of the body?

....I've experimented with strap lengths. Unless I use my right arm to hold the bass in place it just swings back to my right. If anything, the bottom Straplock needs to be extended OUT @2" or so....

Did you try tying the strap to the upper horn as described earlier? any luck? The bottom strap lock shouldn't have much effect as the key anchor point for the ergonomics of a standard bass or a guitar is our left shoulder. Whichever fret sits at that point determines the rest. Basically, the shorter the upper horn the further away the first fret (and so the 7th) moves from you. The longer the upper horn the closer the first fret moves to you. This will be obvious to anyone strapping on a Status M King 34"scale (no surprise they mostly make 32" scale) or an original Steinberger strapped at the 21st fret.

Following this logic you should be able to place your 7th fret where it's more comfortable for you. Fix the upper horn pin first then see if the bottom one makes any noticeable improvement. The right combination might even be somewhere completely unexpected as we all are different. You'll have to try a few options to find the one that is right for you.