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Is there really a big difference between Squire vs Fender

#121
ulynch said:
:eyebrow:

You've been exactly vague. You make a claim of "this wood is better than that wood", but you can't or won't say in what way it's better. That's vague. You claim these electronics or those tuners are "higher quality", but you can't or won't say how they're better. You're being exactly vague.

And obtuse? Seriously? You can't be specific, you just "know" one's better, and if I can't simply agree with you, I must be obtuse? :rollno:

This friends is exactly the religious Fender worshipping attitude a couple folks in this thread have already pointed out. You don't need reasons to believe what you do, you just *know* it's true. :hmm:

You have your preference, and that's great. Just don't try telling us it's better, because until you're willing to take it out and measure it, it's just your preference, and that's all it is.

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go to church.
Click to expand...

Got it Skippy. We'll check back after you play your first gig.
 
#123
Too much lash between the gears is a crappola design for sure. Even with the bad wide open clearances, they would have held a position pretty good I bet, since they cannot unwind if they were truly ring and worm design.

Now - ring & PINION gears can move, but not tuner machines if they are ring and worm.

Tuning UP is always the right thing to do - but yeah, I know what too much backlash means - I've built too many differentials in vehicles to not know.
 
#124
ulynch said:
:eyebrow:

You've been exactly vague. You make a claim of "this wood is better than that wood", but you can't or won't say in what way it's better. That's vague. You claim these electronics or those tuners are "higher quality", but you can't or won't say how they're better. You're being exactly vague.

And obtuse? Seriously? You can't be specific, you just "know" one's better, and if I can't simply agree with you, I must be obtuse? :rollno:

This friends is exactly the religious Fender worshipping attitude a couple folks in this thread have already pointed out. You don't need reasons to believe what you do, you just *know* it's true. :hmm:

You have your preference, and that's great. Just don't try telling us it's better, because until you're willing to take it out and measure it, it's just your preference, and that's all it is.

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go to church.
Click to expand...


I already have given plenty of specifics - it's not my problem that you can't or won't comprehend them... Look up the terms "fit and finish" if you don't know what they mean - same thing with the differences in electronics that I've already listed for you(CTS and Switchcraft vs generic imports)...

Tell you what - why don't you actually go and compare them yourself, and then get back to us - I actually have, and have also owned and played plenty of all of them...


- georgestrings
 
#125
Squier are graet deals for the money, and I would go so far as to say Fenders are a bit overpriced for what they are (the name does buy a bit of cachet).
So while one is undervalued and the other is overvalued. That does not mean that they meet in the middle and are equivalent. If I had a last minute gig and couldn't get to any of my basses I would go to a GC and grab a CIJ or USA Fender Jazz and have no reservations.
While Squiers are great for $300 basses, an awfullot that I check out are dreadful.
I would actually rather pickup an 80's Ibanez Roadstar or Musician for a $300 Fender-ish bass. Or a used Fender MIM.
 
#126
georgestrings said:
I already have given plenty of specifics - it's not my problem that you can't or won't comprehend them... Look up the terms "fit and finish" if you don't know what they mean - same thing with the differences in electronics that I've already listed for you(CTS and Switchcraft vs generic imports)...

Tell you what - why don't you actually go and compare them yourself, and then get back to us - I actually have, and have also owned and played plenty of all of them...


- georgestrings
Click to expand...

I'm sorry george, I disagree; you've given exactly zero specifics. Just because you say one jack is switchcraft and another is generic import tells us nothing about the quality of one over the other. You simply and plainly assert that one is better and expect us to believe you. If you want to convince anyone that you have a point that's anything but religious, you need to tell us what *you* mean by fit and finish.
 
#128
Before the thread completely devolves into a mud slinging dog and pony show, I'll say my piece. I have owned a Squier VM Jaguar and a Squier VM Precision Tele bass. Both are gone and I now own a 2010 Godin Shifter. IME, the Shifter is a better bass in all aspects except price. Do I know where and how the tuners were made on these instruments? No, I do not. Pickups? Nope. Pots? Again, no. However, the Shifter feels better to me. I don't need to put the tuners under a scanning electron microscope to prove which one is better quality. FWIW, I thought that both Squiers were good and got rid of them for reasons other than quality (perceived or real)

I believe we have to speak in general terms when dealing with many thousands of mass produced objects and so, in general, I would opine that Squiers are not as good as MIA Fenders. There are always exceptions and always will be but I think georgestrings has is right.
 
#129
I guess i'll add to the pissing match here. The hardware on my Squier and others i've held are good. Chrome is deep and build is solid on the tuners and bridges, necks and fretboards are put together well. Only thing that is a problem i've noticed is the fit and finish. Neck pocket gaps, pickguard gaps and screws being a little off, little crumbs or specs of dust under the clearcoat. But really nothing to scoff at or turn me away.

With a Fender I feel like you will have less fit and finish problems. It will be a more "cherry" instrument from the factory. It's not like my Squier is junk and the hardware is all of sudden gonna go awry and start falling off.

You pay more for a Fender for a reason, they're good guitars, I know that. But Squier's by FENDER these days aren't just flaming pieces of ****. Some would like to believe so. If American Standards were the price of an MIM I would buy it over a Squier every day, but they aren't that price and i'm not a gear snob, so Squier suffices and are very good instruments on a budget.
 
#130
ulynch said:
I'm sorry george, I disagree; you've given exactly zero specifics. Just because you say one jack is switchcraft and another is generic import tells us nothing about the quality of one over the other. You simply and plainly assert that one is better and expect us to believe you. If you want to convince anyone that you have a point that's anything but religious, you need to tell us what *you* mean by fit and finish.
Click to expand...


Honest question - have you ever actually compared the basses being discussed in this thread in person, side by side???


- georgestrings
 
#131
georgestrings said:
same thing with the differences in electronics that I've already listed for you(CTS and Switchcraft vs generic imports)...
Click to expand...

Switchcraft (or Neutrik, or...) jacks are generally better than generic because they have better tolerances and are less prone to fatigue failures.

When it comes to potentiometers - it really mostly comes down to feel... and that is more a preference thing than a "quality" thing. Heck - there is a reason Bourns sells audio taper pots in "standard" and "high torque".

...and I wouldn't call ANY pots used in basses (Alpha, CTS, Bourns, etc.) "high quality" - they're pretty much all poor tolerance (+/- 15%), carbon track pots.

If we were comparing to a $30 a piece wirewound Spectrol pot it'd be a different thing.

georgestrings said:
Tell you what - why don't you actually go and compare them yourself, and then get back to us - I actually have, and have also owned and played plenty of all of them...
Click to expand...

I have... as well as empirically tested them when spec'ing them out for production... and when it comes to things like rotational noise and lifespan - all the supposedly "good" pots, aren't really any different from generic.
 
#133
Some years ago, I tried a FENDER Jazz 5 Active; loved it's tonal pallette,which sounded unlike a typical J bass. I decided that my next purchase would be a Fender Jazz 5 Active.

I also always wanted a M M 5 active. ...[ I have told this story many times in other threads]... An offer came for me as an emergency replacement in a Heavy Metal band, whose bassist who was fired for drunkeness. They advised me that a 5 was mandatory. I told them all I needed was a rehearsal CD.

At home I began to think more rationally; NO WAY am I bringing my precious ZON to a heavy Metal gig; it has never been exposed to smoke or any "dangerous environments". My birthday was close, so my wife and I went to our local GC to buy a new bass. I saw a MM 5 string; it was everything I thought it would be as I played it. Then I began to think about it..NO WAY will I use a $1700 bass at this gig either.

Then I held my breath and removed the liquid black Squier Jazz 5 Active and plugged it in. [ I tried both basses through same amp; Acoustic B200 Combo..just like mine at home ]. I had been a gear snob since my first "real bass", a 1972 Rick. I had never considered holding a "lesser" instrument, much less actually purchasing one.

Amazingly, the Squier gave identical tones as the MM. Knobs had detents just like the MM as well as my ZON. Squier had a satin-feel neck, just like the MM. I had no issues with the phenolic fingerboard. Even the GC guy was stunned as he was hearing the same thing I was hearing; the $339 Squier sounded identical to the $1700 Music Man. Only difference was slightly better overall feel with the MM, but not nearly $1400 better..SOLD..My wife bougjht me the Squier; been my main-go-to bass since 2009.

No science, no physics..just my own opinion, but it is my ears that heard the sounds and my hands that played the basses.

My next bass purchase may well be another Squier. I only wish they made a Squier 5er fretless..sighs.. A 4 string "Jaco Junior" for under $300 will suffice. I played one of those recently at G C . Had flats..felt like it was slickend with WD-40 or Chicken Grease. I prefer rounds so.......
 
#134
georgestrings said:
Honest question - have you ever actually compared the basses being discussed in this thread in person, side by side???
Click to expand...

Yes. But I'm not the one making an unsubstantiated claim and expecting people to take it as truth on faith alone.


aborgman said:
Switchcraft (or Neutrik, or...) jacks are generally better than generic because they have better tolerances and are less prone to fatigue failures.

When it comes to potentiometers - it really mostly comes down to feel... and that is more a preference thing than a "quality" thing. Heck - there is a reason Bourns sells audio taper pots in "standard" and "high torque".

...and I wouldn't call ANY pots used in basses (Alpha, CTS, Bourns, etc.) "high quality" - they're pretty much all poor tolerance (+/- 15%), carbon track pots.

If we were comparing to a $30 a piece wirewound Spectrol pot it'd be a different thing.

I have... as well as empirically tested them when spec'ing them out for production... and when it comes to things like rotational noise and lifespan - all the supposedly "good" pots, aren't really any different from generic.
Click to expand...

Good input. Thanks for that.

With that in mind, I can say I have a personal preference for pots with a firmer turn feel. It feels like I'm better able to control the amount of turn quickly and more accurately. But I won't go saying they're "better"; I have nothing to back that claim up with. I just like them. Others will feel differently.

So long as the pots on a Squier function as advertised, have a similar lifespan, resist dust intrusion as well, (all measureable differences in quality) then they're just as good as the pots on a $3000 MIA Fender Custom Shop.
 
#135
Arvin said:
It's kind of unfortunate that Fender made the decision to use a different brand name (Squier) for their budget line. If they were all called Fenders, threads like this one would have less vitriol in them.
Click to expand...

I have to totally agree with this post. Warwick uses the Rockbass line, but the newer ones have the W and a 2 piece bridge. Peavey, Spector, Ibanez, etc. The list goes on of brands who have high end basses with the same head stock name of entry level basses. Fender/Squier and Gibson/Epiphone are different.

If someone is playing a Peavey, to the untrained person, they see the name and reconize it and not even think twice. But, someone sees Squier, they know it's no Fender.
 
#136
Even though I bought the basses that I want, I'm still enjoying and learning alot from this debate. Love the passion from both arguments and learning bass electronic and hardware terminology and functions. Please........continue....this is great.
 
#137
Just did a gig Tuesday night with my Sandberg Custom 5 and my Squire P Deluxe. I own a few top end pieces, and let me say that I still grab my Squier at least 35% of the time (out of 14 instruments she gets the most attention)! In my opinion, it is about getting the job done, and are you comfortable doing it. This is actually the second Squier I have owned. I regret selling the first one, and would love to have it back! In all fairness, I will admit that I made a few changes. Check it out here, post #709: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/tricked-out-squier-club-623608/index36.html
 
#138
I have owned BOTH for years. Personally, I will take a Fender production bass over the other any day of the week, but that's me. It's a personal preference.

I always wonder, however, why it seems like that those who purchase Squiers have a predisposition to be always on the lookout for "Fender" decals??? :D

Still own and play my Squier fretless and LOVE it!

Wonder if those FENDER decals are still on Ebay.......??? :D
 

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