Is there realy any need for huge rigs?

[xampworshipx]

soundwaves do interesting things as they blend further out. I play two heads and four cabs, guitarists are on full stacks, we have our own blown out PA to make the vocals more ****ed up sounding. We sound 1000000 times heavier than any PA mic'd or DI'd output nonsense any day.

 

[Bassbasixx]

Thunderthumbs, I must respectfully disagree. What you said works FOR YOU. It also works for me to an extent. But only because the bands I play with nowadays are volume wussies. If you feel more comfortable with a 15" or a 210, that's cool. Others are comfortable with an 810 or two. That's cool, too. No reason that your likes should color theirs.

+1
I always seem to like what you say Jimmy

I used to run 2 8x10's and use the dI on my head + a mic on the cab and it was big and awesome + our guitar player had two full stacks. I don't think a small 50 watt combo or a single 2x10 would of cut the mustard in that situation.

That said I am trying to get away with as little as possible now days 500 watt head + 2x10 + 1x12 and it is very loud and is more then enough for now and what I am doing. I may add a 2x12 to go underneath the 2x10 for larger venues.

And yes I firmly agree it is better to have to much then not enough. If you have to turn up more then halfway your underpowered IMO.

On the flip side I have a friend that plays SMALL clubs with A DI BOX and a monitor no amp at all.

 

[CraigG]

+1 One of the things people like about our band is that our guitarists use full stacks, the drummer has big caged kit and I use 4 cabinets. The stage is full of gear and it adds to the visual presentation for a local club band.

Of course, if you don't have a lot of equipment you could always put a few washing machines behind you. Word has it they're "in style".

Personally, after having played for the past 34 years, my mantra is now "if I can't move it from my vehicle to the stage in one trip, it's probably not worth the trip." Being an aging musician without a roadie, I'm not about to run the risk of taking myself out of commission by having to maneuver a lot of equipment.

Craig

 

[powellmacaque]

I think I need more power.

I previously played in a group which had 12 or 13 singers (depending on the song), a drummer, keyboards, two guitarists, a sax, trumpet, and trombone.

I refused to run through the PA because our director (who was a choral director, not a sound man) refused to run monitors or a hotspot, and I always had complaints from the audience that they couldn't hear the guitarists at all (who were running through the PA), but could hear me perfectly, maybe even too softly.

I was constantly on the verge of clipping with my GK 700rb and 115 cab. Even when I ran through the PA, I couldn't hear myself. I wouldn't really need two 810s, but I would've really enjoyed having an extra 100W of head room and 410.

Just goes to show that some sound men (or women) are out of their element and do not understand how to operate a backing band. Many times I had audience members suggest that our band (who was more talented and driven than a majority the singers) should just quit and have the director use a CD because he wasn't utilizing our talents enough.

In conclusion, different strokes for different folks. Use what you feel appropriate.

 

[Vic Winters]

700W + 4 12's may seem like overkill, but that's what volume knobs are for.

 

[dataBASS5]

Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it.

I need it. I run a pre into a Crown K2 or Stewart 2.1, then to a Mesa 610 or 2) Epifani UL 410's. My band uses a small PA (under powered mixer, smaller mains) for violin, harmonica, & acoustic guitar. I don't go through the PA, it can't handle bass very well. We play many of our gigs outside w/ larger crowds. I'll say it again, I NEED it.

 

[RED5]

Sometimes air just needs to be moved. And yes, it looks less like a coffee house gig with a wall behind you. Sometimes with that wall of amps that you see at, say a Crue gig? only one is running. But it looks awesome! For a real reference point see "The Majesty of Rock" video from Spinal Tap..........

 

[JPaulGeddy]

Sure they're not necessary, but how else are you going to make the panties moist?

Become a guitar player?

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

Of course, if you don't have a lot of equipment you could always put a few washing machines behind you. Word has it they're "in style".

Craig

I tried something like with a dishwasher and a microwave. But they were out of phase to each other so it didn't work and it was killing my onstage sound. Plus they weren't as visually exciting as Geddy's stuff.

 

[Pantsman]

I personally do use a single 810 and with only one guitarist i'll use a guitar half stack too. Only a few people have listed what their amp is competing with and in what genre, I have 2 100watt guitar halfstacks and loud metal drummer. 300 tube watts into an 810 only just cuts it for volume but the tone I get at that volume is awesome, its apples and oranges to smaller setups (not talking powerwise here, just the 'feel' of the cabinet). If you want to be felt just as well as your heard 810/412's are the ticket, this being said though I do want a neo 112 and a markbass head.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Thunderthumbs, I must respectfully disagree. What you said works FOR YOU. It also works for me to an extent. But only because the bands I play with nowadays are volume wussies. If you feel more comfortable with a 15" or a 210, that's cool. Others are comfortable with an 810 or two. That's cool, too. No reason that your likes should color theirs.

We don't always agree, but always nice chatting with you.

 

[dataBASS5]

I find that bigger cabs with decent wheels or casters are much easier and quicker to move than smaller cabs without them.

That's SO TRUE! And you don't have to bend over to pick it up and carry it the whole way. I hated moving my Eden 210 XLT b/c of this. My Mesa 610 rolls from our insulated garage, into our trailer, lays down, then rolls right off into our gig. Best cab EVER!

 

[rockambo]

For me, so much depends on the club's sound system. Our last gig was at a club with a good sound system and a soundman who knew what he was doing. In a situation like that, I would gladly trade some additional stage space and just go direct. I know how to dial it in my sound.

I am all about giving the audience a great show -- we're entertainers after all -- but to me, that means moving around more and giving the audience a show, not using extreme volume as a crutch.

Stages are generally small and there's not alot of space if there's several bands on the billl. Those 810s take up alot of space and if you have more than three musicians you are going to be pretty cramped up there. Especially if every bassist arrives with an arena-style rig for a 100 person club. In that scenario, the stage looks more like a thrift store than a concert.

At the end of the day, I want to punch through and be heard, but I think you have to evaluate your stage set up on a case-by-case basis. There really are few situations where you need a huge rig. If you have an 810 behind you and the monitors in front of you at full tilt, then all you hear is the ringing in your ears.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

For those needing a security blanket, consider investing in a chicken rotiserie.

Wow! It's not enough to just disagree with the concept of a large rig, you have to insult those who use them. That's really classy.

Glad you're one of the ones smart enough to figure it out.

So does that mean that people who use large rigs are just too dumb to do things your way?

Congratulations! If you have even a halfway decent PA and a DI-ed signal, you don't need more than the 2*10 or 1*15.

...and why is that?

Let me reassure you, as a bassist of 14 years, there is no *need* for even one 8*10 cab/setup.

Wow again. You mean to tell us than in a mere 14 years you've played in every situation any bassist could possibly encounter?

I've never needed it.

Not every player is you.

Besides, PA is called "sound reinforcement" for a reason. A lot of guys that run PA systems already have very powerful FOH mains, and monitor setups that by themselves can rip your head off. It is a crazy amount of power and decibel capability that decent PA setups have these days, both for onstage and mains. And that's not including the subs which will also push your low end out into the room and in a way in which "stage volume" (even out of an 8*10) cannot.

I don't know where you play but that is by far the exception rather than the norm. I've played big stages too, and even with state-of-the-art megawatt sidefills and monitors, it was a PALE imitation of my bass sound. It greatly affected my playing negatively as I was constantly struggling to hear myself and the tone was beyond BAD.

Let the soundperson do their jobs. When you see a live band that's kickin' and you hear that chest thumping kick drum and earthquake-inducing low end, that's NOT the stage volume. That's the PA system.

No. That's the incompetent soundguy burying the mix in an annoying boom. A good sound system shouldn't sound like a car stereo competition.

The "rock and roll spectacle" of it all? It's a joke- so many of those huge stacks of speakers were dummy cabinets that had no sound output to them at all. And meanwhile you have guys who pattern their own rigs by this kind of benchmark, by thinking if "rock god x, y, or z" had seven 8*10 cabs for that stadium gig, well then surely it's fine for them to just have one 8*10 to play their local club and bar gigs.

I agree. That's a silly reason, but it's good enough for lots of people. If that makes them happy, who are you to tell them they have no right to it?

No, your sound engineer isn't being a dick at all. He's pragmatic, experienced, knows his stuff, and seems to value a common sense approach.

No. He's being a whiny baby who cannot do his job of taking a bands sound and properly reinforcing it. The soundguy is NOT a producer and should not dictate a band's sound outside of the PA.

Having monster rigs, believe it or not, is harder to get a balanced, consistent sound for the audience and/or from the audience perspective.

...ONLY if the soundguy isn't qualified enough to deal with it.

Make sure your Rig is big enough to cook several chickens!

Or get a rig that can do your laundry

Invalid Link Removed

Have you heard Geddy's tone lately? It's crap!

 

[pedro]

The original question aside momentarily but I guess that I'm the only old guy that finds large rigs embarrassing.

Anyhoo, I've wondered about the whole volume many times here and elsewhere and still marvel at the large discrepancies between what many of us feel we need to gig a small/medium sized clubs. My conclusions so far are that the differences of opinions have a lot to do with the style of music, the other musicians involved, PA support (albeit its absent from my consideration) as well as expectations of where we feel we should be in the mix and how we eq our amps.

 

[idoru]

I tried something like with a dishwasher and a microwave. But they were out of phase to each other so it didn't work and it was killing my onstage sound. Plus they weren't as visually exciting as Geddy's stuff.

You're just not using the right appliances; check this.

c-

 

[Ric5]

Have you heard Geddy's tone lately? It's crap!

Actually I saw them this summer ... his tone was pretty good ... personally I prefer running into a small amp and miking with an sm57 and then going into the PA.

 

[Hawaii Islander]

...but Lemmy has roadies.

Lesson learned! GET ROADIES! (or nephews! )

 

[Michael Case]

Have you heard Geddy's tone lately? It's crap!

Talk about classy.

Personally I don't think big rigs are necessary. FOH being what it is and amp technology have made big rigs a thing of the past. You really can get a lot of sound out of a smaller rig. I do believe it's not so black and white though. If you're playing a venue with no FOH support maybe bigger is better, although I've done medium sized rooms with vocals (in the PA), two guitars, drums, and me with a 125 watt head and 210 cab. I had no problem being heard.
I have also done gigs with no FOH using a 210 + 410 + 400 watt head and felt I could've used more power.

I have no real answer

 

[Bassman62]

A fair percentage of sound engineers are actualy friends of the band or failed musicians.
I've come across so many of these jerks and that is why I insist on my own backline sound with limited augmentation through the PA.
Or maybe I'm just a boring old fart who's stuck in the past.