Is This “Wrong”?

[El_Charro]

Hi Everybody,

I have been trying to learn by playing tabs for the last few months, but looking to up my game, specifically looking to get better at learning by ear.

Since I’m VERY much a visual learner this is going to take a lot of getting used to for me (if I were to be honest I’m somewhat intimidated by taking off the tab training wheels, but I also feel a little more comfortable with basic fretboard knowledge and playing than I was).

My question-Is it a bad idea to only play along to songs as a method of practice.

Apologies if this is kind of a stupid question-My fear is that since my hearing isn’t as sharp as it could be that I’m going to learn songs the wrong way.

I realize I can always mix it up by doing both-Just wondering how some other people practice/learn beyond playing along to Songsterr or other tab apps.

I think someone mentioned on another thread that they practice by playing along to songs on Pandora or iTunes...I’m kind of intrigued by this idea as I’ve tried this a few times, but idk how “right” I’m playing songs when I do this.

Would you please be able to give me some advice on other ways to learn beyond tabs?

I’m just curious how other people practice and how you measure your progress.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks! \m/

 

[bholder]

Learning by ear is a great way to get better, sure. Playing along well requires the ability to identify the notes and / or chords being played. Is your ear good enough to tell you when you're playing the same note?

 

[El_Charro]

[QUOTE="bholder, post: 25139920, member: 18186”Is your ear good enough to tell you when you're playing the same note?[/QUOTE]
————
Eh...Er...Kinda???...I mean I’m trying harder and harder to listen to if the song is going up and down in pitch—I mean-Does that really even count???...

It’s like I can’t always hear the bass line in the song so I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing...Shouldn’t I also be listening to the other instruments???...

This might be a stupid question, but isn’t one of the jobs of the bass player to sorta foster synergy to the rest of the band???...And if so, can that be done by feel/emotion alone??? (Maybe I’m intellectualizing something that is more primal and I just need to learn to relax and stop trying so hard???)...Also-It’s probably different when playing with other people???

Even then I’m not always sure bc I can usually tell when I’m playing the wrong notes (occasionally I can tell I played the right note even when I know it was dumb luck and I just stumbled into doing something right (hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day)...

I also worry I’m out of rhythm so I sometimes find my mind wandering and find myself slapping the open E string to the beat to try to figure out how to keep time...Maybe I’m overthinking it and just need to try to play by “feel”???...

What was weird was that tonight when I didn’t use tabs and just played along to an album it sorta felt more like I was playing for “real” and not just trying to play Bass Hero on my iPad...(Maybe that’s a good thing???)

So, in summary-I’m sorry but it’s probably obvious if you made it this far into reading this rambling post that I’m not even sure I know the answer to that question myself bc I fear my hearing isn’t sharp enough but wouldn’t playing without tablature like that end up honing my listening skills over time???

(Additional feedback would be appreciated)...

Thanks! \m/

 

[El_Charro]

Learning by ear is a great way to get better, sure. Playing along well requires the ability to identify the notes and / or chords being played. Is your ear good enough to tell you when you're playing the same note?

——————-
PS-Apologies, but I just now read your entire signature...That’s freaking hilarious man...(Apparently I need to work on my observational skills which my spouse has brought to my attention on more than one occasion)...

Thanks! \m/

 

[SteveCS]

...I mean I’m trying harder and harder to listen to if the song is going up and down in pitch—I mean-Does that really even count???...

When you are at the beginning of your musical life this is one of the most important things you need to be able to do. Work at it until it is a reflex.

It’s like I can’t always hear the bass line in the song so I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing...Shouldn’t I also be listening to the other instruments???...

Yes, if you are trying to come up with a bass part without charts or notation, then you should be listening to the other instruments. They will provide you with the notes which between them create the harmony (chords). The fundamental role of the bass line is to outline the harmony in a cohetent manner. Imagine the song as a pizza - the vocals are the olives/anchovies/pepperoni, the chords are the cheese, the rhythm is the tomato sauce, and the bass is the bread. All the layers are evenly spread to fit on top of each other; there is nothing falling off the edge and there are not too many bare bits of crust, but a few is always good.

 

[CallMeAl]

To clarify, are you asking is it wrong to use songs as your only method of practice? Or learning by ear as your only method of learning songs?

(or learning songs by ear as your only method of practice?)

 

[Snarf]

Playing along with the song is the best thing you can do right now. I emphasize that with all my students.

 

[Rob1957]

Playing by ear is what us old farts did in the days tabs and the internet
I wore out one copy of ‘Fragile’ learning all of Chris Squire’s bass lines
Playing with the radio and already recorded music is a an essential part of developing your ear
If someone calls out ‘blues in A’ would you know what they meant and could you play without looking at a tab?

 

[Malcolm1935]

Every band I played with used fake chord sheet music. Fake chord gives you the active chord over the lyrics being used at this point in the song. You are given the chord and you fake how you will use this information. Let Google find your fake chord sheet music using these search words --- chords, name of the song.

Fake what you will use - Root five, a full chord tone, (C7= R-3-5-b7), or melody notes using the song's key/scale as a guide.

IMO tabs are a dead end in that you have not learned any thing beside where to sound a specific note. You do not gain any understanding of why that note is being used?

You asked about your hearing being able to identify what note you are hearing. Join the club. Until you turn pro it is OK to have a music stand on stage. Relax, I played for over twenty years with fake chord sheet music on stage with me. Follow the chords, sing the lyrics under your breath and draw your notes from the active chord. It need not be rocket science.

Try this and we can get into the other "stuff" later.

Happy trails.

 

[dreamadream99]

Like any skill, it needs to be honed and fine-tuned with experience. When we start out, about the best we can hope for is differentiating between higher and lower pitches. Now you need to begin zeroing in on the exact pitches involved. This is called ear training, or aural skills. There are free online resources that can help you with this, but ultimately you need to be able to differentiate between a whole step and a half step, and eventually recognize every interval by its sound. This will take years—not weeks or months. The end result is that you will be able to listen to a melody, and learn all the right notes involved, without ever touching an instrument or writing down a single note.

 

[jthisdell]

Learning scales in all your keys is useful. No, necessary.

I have a practice routine where I chose a key, say Gmaj and then play all the scales in the key. So Gmaj Amin Bmin Cmaj Dmaj Emin F#min.

Take turns going through the whole scale or through parts.

Builds dexterity, more scale memory and ear training.

Then when you play along with a song you can understand what they are playing and why they are playing it.

A lot of casual musicians can play without knowing any theory but it really helps bassists.

 

[DrMole]

Developing a feel for timing and an ear for pitch are required skills on any instrument.

Growing up- I played to radio, records, TV commercials, Cartoon theme songs, Bugs Bunny episodes...

 

[gln1955]

You will start to feel good about your ability to pick up bass lines by ear from a recording when you realize most of the tabs out there are wrong to some extent. Some are very, very bad.

 

[N4860]

Since you're just starting to learn by ear, I would suggest to just listen to the main chord progression and start with that. Don't even worry about the bass part at first and learn to figure out the roots to the chord progression. That alone will go a long way to developing your ear for different intervals. Once you get comfortable with that try to focus in on the bass part.

 

[sean_on_bass]

My question-Is it a bad idea to only play along to songs as a method of practice.

I would argue it is the best way to practice, and by getting good at it, you will be in a better place than players that don't do it. It's how i learned to play, and now 20 years later, i can pickup on a songs key and chord progression in the first minute of the song. I can learn a song faster by ear then by reading a tab. Do it! Just make sure you are taking small amounts of your practice time to run through technical exercises and learn concepts like scales and how to build chords. Those are key to bringing everything you learn by ear into context.

 

[jamro217]

Perhaps some mental exercises will help you to recognize and understand your "ears". Interval training will help immensely. Intervals are the distance between two notes. Being able to differentiate between notes by hearing them is one of the most useful skills you can develop. As a beginner you have the advantage of focusing in on what part of your training you think will benefit you the most. Reading music (not tabs) will make more sense than just a chart that shows where to place your fingers. Half of music is pitch, the other is rhythm. Training your ear to match the correct pitch (being in tune) takes some time. There are assigned notes to frequencies. A-440. There are rules to help guide you through this maze.

Western Musical notation is made up of twelve notes: A, A#/Bb, B, C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab. These notes are one half step apart. Each fret on your bass is one half step. Two frets equal one whole step. The major scale is created by using eight of them (one is an octave of the same note). Intervals are the spacing of those notes in the scale. Starting on A, the major scale is: A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A. By comparing that with the twelve notes listed above, you'll see that the formula for the major scale is 1, skip one, 2, skip one, 3, 4, skip one, 5, skip one, 6, skip one, 7, 8. In other terms: whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. Wherever you start (the key) the formula is the same. The combination of incidentals (sharps or flats) that result from running this pattern is unique to each key. The key signature at the beginning of the staff has the information. Sharps and flats are never mixed in formulating keys. By counting sharps or flats, you know exactly which key you're in. The cycle of fifths is a chart showing this. Learn it. C major is the only key with no incidentals. C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. G major has one sharp (F#). Using the formula: G, A, B,C, D, E, F#,G. This continues through the cycle. The order of sharps (as they appear) is: F, C, G, D, A, E, B. The keys correspond to the appearance of sharps in order: C=0, G=1 sharp, D=2 sharps, A=3 sharps... F is the only key without an incidental in it's name that has a flat in it's key signature (Bb). Notice how it is to the left of C in the order of sharps. The order of flats is just the opposite: B, E, A, D, G, C, F.


Rhythm is the timing of the notes played. Each note is a value based on it's duration. The notes are divided up equally. One whole note is equal to two half notes, or four quarter notes or eight eighth notes... Rests follow this pattern. The time signature is at the beginning next to the key signature. It tells you how many beats per measure (the top number), and which note is equal to one beat (the bottom number). The music is divided up into measures (or bars) of equal numbers of beats. 4/4 is common time and means that there are four beats per measure and a quarter note equals one beat. 6/8 means that there are six beats per measure and the eighth note equals one beat.

The grand staff is divided into two halves: the treble (G) clef on top and the bass (F) clef on the bottom where we live. Middle C is right smack dab in the middle. Memorize this, if possible.


For interval training it works well to identify each interval with a tune you know. Intervals are as follows (using the key of C as a reference point):

C, C: Unison
C, C#/Db: minor second
C, D: Major second
C, D#/Eb: minor third
C, E: Major third
C, F: perfect fourth
C, F#/Gb: augmented fourth, diminished fifth, tritone
C, G: perfect fifth
C, G#/Ab: minor sixth
C, A: Major sixth
C, A#/Bb: minor seventh
C, B: Major seventh
C, C: octave


A perfect fourth can be remembered as the interval used to tune you bass. E, A, D, G. A Perfect fifth is the opening to "Here Comes The Bride" and so on. Pick whatever tunes you like to assign to these intervals and you'll remember them easily. Hope this helps.

 

[Vitamin D]

Wrong? No -- nothing you do to learn is wrong. I know the tabs are comforting, and you've already recognized they could be a crutch. But, even learning with tabs can be helpful as you start to "see" the relationships between notes. But take the leap. Close the browser or look away from the page. Turn on a song, and don't try to match the bass line, just start my trying to find the chord; the root note for each measure of the song. That helps you grasp the structure of the song too. Yeah, it's a mental exercise, but it's well worth it.

Gotta say, the value of the scales is not to be underestimated, but that just might be premature at this point. Find the roots and teach yourself the song. It will stick a lot better if you've discovered that yourself.

It all builds simultaneously -- you can't know everything first. You'll magically know some music theory, get some ear training, song structure and melody knowledge, technique and finger strengh... all by playing along and really listening.

 

[SLPimp]

Yes. End of answer.

 

[Killing Floor]

It’s good to be competent playing by ear. But you should also spend the time to do some of the less glamorous work. Because scale work and theory, even a little, will ramp up your playing a lot.

edit to say I wouldn’t call it “wrong”. Maybe a short cut. But what is best for you and your objectives isn’t necessarily the same as someone else.

 

[dr doofie]

[QUOTE="bholder, post: 25139920, member: 18186”Is your ear good enough to tell you when you're playing the same note?

————
Eh...Er...Kinda???...I mean I’m trying harder and harder to listen to if the song is going up and down in pitch—I mean-Does that really even count???...

It’s like I can’t always hear the bass line in the song so I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing...Shouldn’t I also be listening to the other instruments???...

This might be a stupid question, but isn’t one of the jobs of the bass player to sorta foster synergy to the rest of the band???...And if so, can that be done by feel/emotion alone??? (Maybe I’m intellectualizing something that is more primal and I just need to learn to relax and stop trying so hard???)...Also-It’s probably different when playing with other people???

Even then I’m not always sure bc I can usually tell when I’m playing the wrong notes (occasionally I can tell I played the right note even when I know it was dumb luck and I just stumbled into doing something right (hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day)...

I also worry I’m out of rhythm so I sometimes find my mind wandering and find myself slapping the open E string to the beat to try to figure out how to keep time...Maybe I’m overthinking it and just need to try to play by “feel”???...

What was weird was that tonight when I didn’t use tabs and just played along to an album it sorta felt more like I was playing for “real” and not just trying to play Bass Hero on my iPad...(Maybe that’s a good thing???)

So, in summary-I’m sorry but it’s probably obvious if you made it this far into reading this rambling post that I’m not even sure I know the answer to that question myself bc I fear my hearing isn’t sharp enough but wouldn’t playing without tablature like that end up honing my listening skills over time???

(Additional feedback would be appreciated)...

Thanks! \m/[/QUOTE]
There’s something called Bass Hero?

You needn’t worry about playing along to songs... in my opinion it’s a very effective way of practice, both for technical skill and ear training.
I’m not sure from your post if you’re saying your actual hearing is impaired, or you feel your music “ear” is in need of sharpening up, or both, but you can never go wrong playing along with music. It’s the closest thing a lot of us have to playing with real people anyways, and it’s always fun!
Try playing/ listening through over ear headphones with your bass in the mix of the music, and you’ll hear the basslines much easier.