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Double Bass Is this a steal?

#21
I have a blockless wonder from the 1880s that looks a lot like this. Mine had some work done by the Cincinnati Bass Cellar. Mine is very light weight, a little prone to cracks, and very resonant. It has a sort of "cultured" tone, and speaks well under the bow or pizzicato.
If this one is similar (sure looks it) you will have to treat it carefully--they are not durable like a heavy plywood bass. But, it could be a real gem of a player. On something like this, what your luthier puts into it will be at least as important, if not more important, than what the maker originally put into it.
If you are able to invest in some good shop work, this might qualify as a "steal."
 
#22
Thanks for all the reply's. I just got back from playing the bass and there are a few things I'm concerned about. The endpin is non existent, not that big of a deal. The fingerboard is very thin an flimsy. The bridge has a crack in the middle, it looks almost like someone did this intentionally, I cant imagine why. The overall tone of the bass leaves a bit to be desired. It's has very quite and somewhat unresponsive pizz. The arco however does sound pretty good, even with gut strings. I shined a light in the bass and it is filled top to bottom with cobwebs, you can also see light coming through some of the cracks. I also noticed that there are pieces of fabric on the inside of the bass where the upper bouts are. I have no idea what these are. The thing that most concerns me is the neck/fingerboard. I love the feel of the neck under the left hand its very thin and smooth much like my Kay, BUT after looking at the bass from different angles it looks as if the neck and fingerboard are set alot further forward than I am used to.

The seller was very much against me taking the bass into the shop. He said that was something that he would rather do himself, but I got the sense that he wasn't going to.

Sadly I dont think this is something I'm going to buy. I understood from the get go that I was going to have to invest money to restore this bass, and I was very much willing to, but after hearing the bass I was just unimpressed with the overall sound of the bass. Thanks again for all of your help. I will be sure to posting if anything else comes up.

Charles
 
#24
I don't want to speak out of turn here because there are people who know much more about repairs than me, but I don't believe replacing the fingerboard is uncommon or a big issue. It might be worth asking about. Also, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the neck being set forward but the guy who sold me my bass was restoring an old Kay bass a few years back and along with replacing the fingerboard, I believe he was changing the neck angle and overstand which may be what you're talking about. I have no idea what those types of repairs might cost but it might be worth making a phone call or asking questions here. Also, replacing the bridge would be a very common and not very costly repair.
 
#25
Sorry but im not very familiar with repairs. I was speaking about the overstand. Does anyone happen to know how serious or not serious that repair is. I am aware that a new bridge and fingerboard wouldnt be major surgery I was just kinda giving a bit of and overview on my experience with the bass.
 
#26
Well, a high overstand isn't necessarily a problem... it gets you a better angle on the fingerboard in high positions. Fingerboards can be replaced fairly easily, although a new one is quite an expensive part.

It's all about money: is this bass worth spending the effort on? A luthier will be better placed to help you assess how far to go.

For what it's worth, that looks like a bass worth restoring. It has that look of something that was made quite well in the first place, and that will carry over through to how it might turn out. If it's in that condition and sounds at all reasonable, it will probably be very impressive once repaired and set up to get its best sound.
 
#27
Been down this road many times. Like Arnold said, it's a blockless wonder.....no neck block. Do that.
Maybe, as has been said, has an integral bass bar. Do that. The neck block will address the overstand. Cracks up the ying-yang. Fix those and anything else that comes up after the top plate is off. New ebony board and maybe the other stuff like end-pin, nut, saddle.....etc.
You're looking at a few grand, as been said.
Two things......the bass may sound like a POS or sound just amazing. NHOP played a bass that looked just like that for most of his career. It didn't sound very good before he had it restored. Many others came out after restoration sounding worthless.
Good luck, but it's time to gamble......big time.
 
#29
After sleeping on it for a night the seller has decided to take my offer of 650. So tonight I will be going to pick up the bass. On tuesday I will be taking it in to St. Louis strings to get an estimate on the work that needs to be done. I will post again on tuesday. Thanks again for all the help guys.
 
#32
Good for you-as a lover of the blockless wonder, I wish you the best of luck. My only advice would be to have everything done now; bass bar and neck block especially. These will pay off in the long run with improved sound and structural integrity. Keep us up to date on progress and results.
 
#33
While this can be an exciting adventure, make sure your costs are in line with the projected value of the bass. Get estimates from a few luthiers if you can. I hope you report back here before you jump in with the work. Also, realize that you may be disappointed with the finished result, it is a possibility... You're only out a few hundred at this point so you could still bail.
 
#34
I plan to have the bass looked at by at least 3 very respected shops in town. Based on what they say will help me decide whether or not to go ahead with the restoration. I will be posting whenever I get quotes from the different shops to see if they sound reasonable to you guys, I'll also post what the shops have to say about the instrument in general. I realize this could be one of to things a great investment or a BIG loss of money. But I will deffinatly do the research by going to different place and reporting here before I commit to much cash. I can't say enough how greatfull I am for all of the input you guys have given me.
 
#35
Hey guys I'm just checkin in.

I got the bass last night and spent a few good hours playing and examining the bass. A few things I have gathered from playin the bass more: After getting it home and under good light I noticed that there was at one point a hole in one of the ribs of the bass. It has been repaired but I'm not sure how well. Also there is a great deal of buzz coming from the bass when played and when being moved it rattles a bit. Thr buzzing is much louder when playing open strings. I have a feeling the ratteling is not from debris inside the bass. Its pretty clean except for some cob webs which I've cleaned out. I'm thinking the buzzing and rattleing could be coming from a crack. It also sounds as if the buzz is coming from the middle of the bass. As I have said I don't know much about repairs but I'm guessing this could be from the bass bar? Maybe its loose towards the top of the bass and buzzing when played? Just a thought.

I've talked to both of my teachers and they are extremly excited and think I made a good move. One of which I contacted before buying the bass. They feel like it could be worth it in the long run but who knows.

I'm taking the bass into a shop tomorrow get my first apprasial and estimate.

Let me know if you all have any idea what the rattle\buzz could be coming from.
 
#37
So the first shop I took the bass to seems to think the bass could possibly be old english but they aren't sure. They said that I could possibly only get about 2-5 grand for the bass if I ever sold it that is including any work I have done on it. I'm not really looking to sell the bass. I would like to use it as a second instrument one for jazz and one for orchestral playing. They suggested putting a limit like 2000 dollars and putting that much worth of work into it, once I get to 2000 to stop. They also said I might wanna put a new bridge and some good strings on and possibly have the fingerboard planed or have a new fingerboard put on. After I have this work they thought I might be able to get a better feel for the sound of the bass. And then I could decide whether I want to pursue the other repairs. The luthier also said that he would show me hoe to fill in some of the cracks with hide glue, that way I could get rid of some of the rattleing and the air wouldn't be escaping anymore.

I still plan on having the bass looked at by more people.

Let me know what you guys think
 
#38
I think further assessments, as you indicate, are warranted. If it were me, I'd address the buzzing and rattling issues before I concerned myself with new fingerboards, etc. If you're unable to eliminate these, why proceed further?
 
#39
I would start by getting second and third opinions from other luthiers before committing $thousands to repair.

And if it were me, I'd go with minimal repair first for the several-hundreds route - just enough to get it up to speed and keep cracks from expanding, etc., as opposed to the whole enchilada repair/renovation/updating. Then play it a while. THEN decide if you want to sink thousands into it.

That way if you DO decide to sell it, you won't be too deep in the hole.
 
#40
If it was mine I’d
1) Replace fingerboard
2) Have the top off
a. Evict spiders
b. Replace the integral bassbar (sure as green apples) with a real one
c. Fix all cracks, reglue loose braces
3) Strip and refinish dark, maybe add some antiquing for fun… Sacrilege to some, but this thing is a no-name orphan with no pedigree to damage.
4) Adjust the neck to a more modern angle if wanted. Might not need add a block, your luthier can judge best but I have a Blockless Wonder (aka “Spanish Neck” or “Guitar Neck”) that was adjusted for more overstand. It’s a solid axe…
5) New bridge, sound post and get a endpin and new tail gut.

Be careful with the top, chances are it’s on the thin side so start with low tension strings like guts or velvets
 

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